Small Dog Agression - not a new Grey!

[Oskar]

Can anyone help me, with advice?
i hve had my greys for3-4 years, one was a keen racer and is and always will be keen wih cats, rabbits and smalll furries, my other one has always been a basket case, nervous, agoraphobic and anorexic. I have adjusted m life. worked with a behaviourist, trained them individually etc. etc. Yesterday my nervous dog (aged 7!) attacked another dog in the park - he was on a lead and muzzled but got out of everything and went nuts. My second grey, who I know is a killer, joined in, and it was a nightmare, 68 kilos of keen racers.... I have also a lurcher (the pack leader) and a terrier who both my greys love and care for, but I lost control of my pack, i did all the things I know and should have done but the outcome was not good, I have lost confidence in my ability to lead my pack adequately. The dog that was attacked was a toy breed B:UT a dog they all know and have no previous issues with. I need some advice of how to work with my new-found 'attack dog' - he is also stressed and disturbed by what has happened - I feel so guilty and helpless to know what to do "(I have had my wounds stitched up!) but I feel like never taking my beautiful family out again because I can't control my pack gone wild. Please help me, with your knowledge and experience, I feel like giving up!

[dominique]

I am so sorry that this has happened to you and I'm not the best person to give advice as I'm still wearing my 'L' plates, but I know how it feels to have your confidence in your ability to control your dogs in certain situations severly knocked and my heart goes out to you.
Is it possible for you to walk them seperately so that you only have one dog to control? It's something that I have to do now

[sharron]

Do you know what triggered this attack, Was it over food or because the small dog got to close?
If you can work out why it happened and the reason for it, it would help with how to stop the problem.

[francesd]

So sorry to hear what has happened, it must have been really shocking for you. Have you taken any rescue remedy and arnica for yourself and RR for your hounds? That may help.

Sometimes its clearer to know what triggers certain situations and what the flashpoints are such as over food and toys but sometimes its not as easy to know why things happen.

I would suggest your nervous dog may need to be in a harness now if he can get out of his usual collar and muzzle. Knowing that he can't get out should give you more confidence.

Please don't give up and I'm sure you will be able to take your beautiful family out again but they need you to be able to be confident for them so perhaps taking one or 2 out at a time for a few days will help you to build your confidence.

You've clearly put a lot of time and effort in with your pack, do you feel you could contact the behaviourist you used to talk over what has happened and let them suggest a way forward?

I'm sure others here will have some good advice for you.

Take care

Fran
x

[Oskar]

Thank youdo much for your responses, I have contact Jim Greenwood for some professional help but your comments have helped, sometimes it feels you are alone with a mad pack of wild beasts you no longer know..I know I love them to bits and have done all \i can but just now worry if this is the best environment, if I am misjudging their needs

[annar]

i think youll find unfortunately that many of us have been in the same situation as yourself, i didnt realise what greyhound were capable of till i was in the situation many years ago and unable to control it, one of my own dogs a lurcher came out badly injured and i felt like giving up, you see them in a different light and think youll never feel the same way about them again, one of my attackers was Lara who went on to be my heart and soul dog. I had some fabulous advice at the time from Lisa, she suggested placing a baby gate up to keep my dogs apart when i wasnt around or felt they were unsettled with each other so they could reintroduce carefully and slowley, i walked my dogs seperately until i got my trust back with them, it took a long time for my feelings of failure to chnace to that of "i can" again but it did. Aconite is also a fabulous herbal remedy for helping in instances of shock, we took this for a while until we started to settle. You will still be running on tender hooks for a good while, just take it easy it will be ok. anna.x.

[Deleted]

I agree with Anna, until you see them loop the loop it's difficult to imagine that they are the same gentle creatures that you know & love so well around the home.

The Ruff Wear body harnesses are great for control as they have a handle on the back so you can hoik them out of bother & if you use a double ended training lead with one end connected to the harness & the other to the collar you have total control.

It's going to take time for you all to heal & recover so be kind to yourself. I have lost confidence before & I found that taking short walks to 'safe' i.e. quiet areas with the dogs separately helped.
Take comfort from the knowledge that you have the support & will to sort this out where many others give up

[LurcherGirl]

I hope the little dog was ok? You don't say in the post what happened to him.

First of all, I would suggest to walk the dogs separately in twos (or even walk the one that attacked alone to do some work with him). One of the reasons why our 4th dog is not another lurcher is because I didn't want another high-pray drive dog as controlling two saluki lurchers is all that I can handle! (And they are also muzzled a lot of the time). I still occasionally walk them separately just to get some training in again! They need it.

Secondly, I would definitely put on a harness and use a double ended lead if necessary where you can clip one end to the collar and the other to the harness. This gives you double security and better balance too.

Is this the first aggressive incident with your dog? If so, I would watch his general behaviour very carefully; if you feel that he is overall getting more aggressive and this incident does not remain a one-off (though I am sure you can prevent further incidents), then perhaps checking him over for any aches and pains would be useful as well as checking his hormones, I am thinking in particular of the thyroid.. Thyroid issues can cause aggression.

Has there been a diet change recently? Any particularly upsetting or stressful events in his and your life? Has he been more stressed in general than usual?

Vera

[Oskar]

Hi where do I get a ruff wear body harness?

the little dog died and I am now at risk of prosecution (I have been warned by the police not to walk my dogs) which will result in both my greys being destroyed.

I am doing everything I can, but I have always been a responsible dog owner (I thought, but i can't really say that when my dogs have killed another) - one of the main problems was my slender greyhound's ability to slip a muzzle two collars and a double lead - I think a harness is definitely an option, if we survive this.

The woman owning the dog who was killed has actually said to my friend that she STILL loves my greyhounds, in spite of what they have done (how lucky are we? she rang the police right after when she was distraught and now regrets it, as she says she does not want to be responsible for my dogs being destroyed), but the police are pressurising her to prosecute and have been around hassling me and threatening me as an 'irresponsible owner of dogs who are dangerously out of control'...when me, my dad and my lurcher and his wolfhound were attacked by a drug addict in the same field three years ago the police took three days to come and take a statement but that is a whole different issue!

Thyroid is a really good idea, that would explain his irrational appetite and boggly eyes too, I am seeing Jim Greenwood next week too,

I never want to go through this again or be responsbile for another dog being injured but I am just realising the prejudice and ignorance out there - yes my dogs have done a terrible thing and I will never forget it but I really cannot accept that they deserve to die because of one incident.

Thanks for all your messages it really helps and I will not give up - somehow I have missed something and hopefully the medical things you have suggested and Jim's advice might give us the chance for a second chance....fingers crossed xx x x X

[Deleted]

Oh no what an horrific situation to be in, you must be distraught as is the owner of the poor little one

You can get a Ruff Wear harness here www.caninespirit.co.uk/shop/detail.asp?prodid=27&prodsecid=8 they are very good.

Can you get legal advice, are your dogs insured, if so you should have legal cover in that or if not check your house insurance for personal liability cover. Can you get some good character witnesses for your dogs from your vet, perhaps from a behaviourist, just thinking that you need some positives to show that this was a one off & will never happen again.

I do hope that the police don't press charges I can't see that anything will be gained by that, it's not going to bring the poor dog back & if the owner doesn't want to proceed either there seems little point.

How are you all keeping?

[annar]

oh no im so sorry, im not sure about the dog laws maybe someone else will know but im keeping all my thoughts that everything will turn out ok for you. anna.x.

[Nettie]

I don't think the police can prosecute in view of the death of this little dog, when Indy was badly attacked they were not interested because of his injuries but were interested in the fact that we were bitten. We didn't persue prosecution because I was bitten by my own dog and it was our fault, you do not stick your hands in the middle of a dog attack but of course, we just wanted to seperate the two dogs. Your best course of action would be to contact Trevor Cooper, a well known canine law lawyer. www.doglaw.co.uk/phoneadvice.php

[Princess C]

So sorry to hear that the little dog died, and of the police's persistence in wishing to see you prosecuted I don't know much about dog law but would have thought that it would have to be a private prosecution - I can't see the CPS running with a case where your dog was initially on-lead and muzzled (and presumably you have witnesses to that effect?) Those are not the outward signs of an irresponsible owner

Hoping that Trevor Cooper will be able to set your mind at rest

[kizzeysmum]

I am so very sorry that this has happened to you.

I cannot add much to everything that has been said but I am thinking about you and hoping it all turns out alright for you

Rose Marie

[Deleted]

I was thinking along the same lines that because the aggression was towards another dog not human then they are on a sticky wicket as far as a public prosecution goes for a dog dangerously out of control in a public place, take a look at this link
www.doglaw.co.uk/legal/dangerous.php

There is a case for civil law which may apply to you ...

Section 2 Dogs Act 1871
This is a civil complaint, although as it is heard in a Magistrates' Court, it is often (wrongly) said to be criminal. It occurs if a dog is not kept under proper control and is dangerous. Generally a dog is regarded as not being under proper control if it is neither on a lead nor muzzled.

Unlike Section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991:

it applies regardless of where the incident takes place
proceedings can only be brought against the owner
a dog can show itself to be dangerous in its general behaviour, not just its behaviour towards a person
a single incident is generally insufficient to prove that a dog is dangerous, unless the Court believes that the single incident is exceptional
there is no presumption in favour of destruction of the dog
the Police have no power to seize a dog pending proceedings
the Court has no power to fine or order compensation
The Court has unfettered discretion on what to do to the dog. They may order destruction of the dog but such orders are very rare. The alternative is a Control Order (with or without conditions) and the owner will probably have to pay costs.