I really could do with some advice for Maddy ...

[jenjanjo]

I am really at a loss as how to handle Maddy at the moment...

Over the last twelve months, she has been increasingly reactive with other dogs when on lead. She meets lots of dogs in our jobs as Caravan Park Wardens, so really don't think its to do with socialising, but we are having to hold her back now as we are never sure which dogs she will snarl/snap at etc. We can't think of anything that has happened to make her like this, and its not anything that has happened before we had her, as she came to us from Gap as a pup. She loves her 'sister' Tilly, and they are fine together, and apart from this, she is such a loving and funny girl.

[andywillow]

All I've never done Janice is muzzle them and continue to do normal walks and meet as many dogs as possible. Maybe I have been lucky but its worked for us, Annie is a reformed character now, as is Delta, they are both non reactive now with dogs who approach us, Annie is gobby but that's just her I do find that when they are muzzled as well as safe in a harness (which I know you use) I relax more and don't really make a big deal of them and let them get on with it.
Hope she settles soon xx

[jenjanjo]

I will give muzzle a go Sue! Like you say, it will help us relax!

[vickyb]

Apr 24, 2014 16:19:50 GMT -5 jenjanjo said:

I will give muzzle a go Sue! Like you say, it will help us relax!

I'd try a breezy one Janice rather than the box one especially with summer coming. I don't think Nicky is doing them but you can get them on ebay from ukhippo which is midland greyhound who make them and that's where Nicky got them from. Bod has a short reach lurcher one as the whippet one is a bit small and the greyhound one a bit big. We usually need to make an extra hole in the strap. They come in a few colours now not just black. 

www.midlandgreyhound.co.uk/index.php/our-products/muzzles
it's a new website and hasn't got all the piccys on, I assume they will be adding them. If you need any fitting advice they are really helpful if you give them a ring.

[francesd]

If possible I would set up some occasions where she meets nice dogs that you know already and who won't react to her. This will remind her that other dogs are ok. If you can do this as much as possible, maybe put some rescue remedy in her water as well and with the muzzle on you will also feel more relaxed and this will help her.

Will she'watch' you? I would practice this so that on walks when you see another dog you can distract her by asking her to watch you and reward with a treat. Give her lots of space between other dogs for now on walks. With Nico I know that he can't cope with meeting other dogs head on, on the same side of the road. If he reacts I see it as my fault that I haven't given him enough space and distracted him quick enough. In time you will be able to shorten the space as you are showing her that seeing other dogs is a positive experience because you are rewarding her each time she sees one. Nico looks at me now when he sees another dog because he wants his treat.

I know that you will already know this stuff but sometimes it's about going back to basics. Good luck.

Fran
x

[emmajane]

At what point does she react to them? Are they far away? Sniffing her? Bouncing on her head? Are you SURE there is no common denominator to the dogs she doesn't like? What situations is she in when she reacts (in a small space, indoors, outdoors, on a very short lead etc)? What do you think she would do if allowed to get up close to them?
While you ponder these questions I'd get her out and about on her own where there are dogs that you know are under control and not going to come up to her, start far away and each time a dog comes into sight just feed feed feed her - the best and most favourite of her treats - until the other dog goes out of sight and then stop feeding her. At first don't be bothered if she barks or anything just keep feeding - you are just building up an association of strange dogs = good things (and NOT rewarding her barking - trust me!!). If she is barking or refusing food then you are too close and need to move away. While you're retraining her I would avoid strange dogs getting closer than she can easily deal with.
You can also teach her to "Look at that" which is where she looks at the other dog and then gets fed, the idea is to let her check out the "scary thing" but then re-orient to you for the reward, I don't really like asking dogs to watch me as a distraction from something they are scared of because if I'm worried about where a spider is, I want to make sure its not sneaking up on me while I'm not watching it ha ha

Even with my guys that are happy to meet and greet I will try to make sure that Hello's with strange dogs when they are on lead are very short and move them on as soon as I see an opportunity (if they don't come with me as I start to turn away I'll use a kissy noise or something else that will get their attention)

Bless her little cotton socks she's either had a rough encounter somewhere down the line which has knocker her confidence, or she's telling the other dogs to back off right flipping now because they've not taken any notice of her more subtle hints - a bit like a pretty girl getting hit on at bar by drunken men

PS Fran - How cute is Nico? Mammy gimmy my sweeties. What a superstar xx

[francesd]

Emma I like your point about not asking a dog to look at me when they're scared of something. I'd not thought of it like that before. Having said that I was going to add that with Chou when she'd improved so much I would use the same word for a familiar dog who I knew she could cope with looking at from a certain distance. I would just call it Boo boo. So when we'd see the dog I didn't ask her to look at me I'd be all happy saying 'Aww look there's Boo boo!' Then Chou would get her reward for looking without barking etc. I'd be calling all these dogs Boo boo their owners must have thought I was nuts! This really did work and it felt that she was happier looking at the dogs.

Fran
x

[emmajane]

There's a fine line between letting them check something out and getting fixated, and it'll depend on each dog and each situation as to where it lies. Trial & error and reading your dog is sort of key, but I err on the side of caution and if I suspect looking at the other dog is too much then I'll move further away or distract like crazy - which is pretty much what I use "Watch me" for but it is seriously rewarded with billions of fabulous things

I'm so using BooBoo from now on ha ha

[jenjanjo]

Some interesting points, thanks ladies
She is always interested in the dogs we see when out and about and 'sometimes' has a pop as we go past, sometimes not. Its more when I see someone we know and perhaps stop to speak to them. Maddy always goes towards them quite excitedly and then suddenly with some, she has a pop...perhaps the dog may be warning her, but it always seems to be Maddy! She doesn't like her bum sniffed but that isn't always the start of it. She never barks, but starts with the rolled up lips and showing of teeth. She happily accepts other dogs who visit the house so it only happens when out and about and on reasonably short lead. She is such a sweetie who we love to bits and I wish I could understand where its all coming from

[mtbbuxton]

Bless her, she really is a lovely girl. As Sue says, muzzle so you can relax and then I'd try and walk her on her own as Tilly's company may be exaggerating the behaviour.  I know you use a collar and harness with a double lead and I'd be tempted to try and walk/steer her via the harness more than the lead.  Mayo can still be a bit giddy meeting dogs and I find he's happier when I'm not hanging onto his neck for dear life   If she's got more control over where her head goes, Maddy may feel more in control of the situation IYSWIM. 

Give me a shout if you think I can help at all.

Moira x

[julies]

I always use the spider story ... I'm fine with spiders if they are far away, still and I can see them, I'm sort-of OK when they are moving (away) and I can see them, I'm sort-of-ish OK if they are moving towards me at a distance and I can see them but once they get too close I'm really NOT OK

As well as the above great advice you can also use a clicker to mark when she's looked at other dogs with a relaxed, soft eye but I would always ask her to look at me or move or do something before you get to the 'kicking off' stage which I'd view as being not ok .... TTouch is of course fab and you can use the TTouches at home as well as outside to relax her and reduce tension, thundershirts,wraps and tee shirts are worth a try. Your double-ended lead attached to the harness - usually one clip to the chest and one clip to the spine ring and that can really help reduce reactivity.

If you can find a lovely non-reactive friendly dogs to first walk with on lead then off lead when she's calm and relaxed that'd really help ... I just also think some dogs won't like mine and vice versa ... I don't like everyone I meet so why should they

I found Charlie really really improved when I didn't allow any off lead dog to come up into his face - that's was his real hate ... if I walked with other on-lead dogs for about 20 mins they could all go off lead and would mooch about together happily

Keep at it, you'll get there in the end

Julie x

[jenjanjo]

Thanks everyone I've already been trying some of the suggestions, but will also try the ones I haven't!
We met a lovely black lurcher the other day, so were chatting to his humans. Maddy was keen to get nose to nose, but then I saw her lips curling up so pulled her away! I'm sure we'll sort it, its just the understanding of why she does it, and whether it is fear or what.

[jodav]

Interesting point about the watch me distractor which I use to break the initial stare and not to keep the dog's attention on me. I think the goal is that the dog is free to turn its head back again and make its own mind up about what it sees which hopefully informs you further. Lots of good advice before and I think I would look for a dog or dogs that you know to have gold-standard signalling ie relaxed tail position, head-turning, sitting down, lying down, sniffing the ground, yawning all signals which will reassure Maddy and help her regain her trust. I would suggest going nose to nose with any dog is very hard for her even if the dog appears friendly, the owner is your friend etc hence she prepares with a lip curl and display of teeth which is one of her strongest warnings to the other dog. Have a close look at her body language before the lip curl because there will be some movement in tail or ears and hopefully you can reassure her with a distractor and a treat. Work with the threshold at which she is relaxed in the vicinity of other great dogs and stay positive.
Jo

[julies]

Turid Rugaas's book is very helpful ... lots of great pics, On Talking Terms with Dogs - Calming SIgnals (or sort of that title

J x

[barkyhound]

Apr 25, 2014 13:14:44 GMT -5 jenjanjo said:

Some interesting points, thanks ladies
She is always interested in the dogs we see when out and about and 'sometimes' has a pop as we go past, sometimes not. Its more when I see someone we know and perhaps stop to speak to them. Maddy always goes towards them quite excitedly and then suddenly with some, she has a pop...perhaps the dog may be warning her, but it always seems to be Maddy! She doesn't like her bum sniffed but that isn't always the start of it. She never barks, but starts with the rolled up lips and showing of teeth. She happily accepts other dogs who visit the house so it only happens when out and about and on reasonably short lead. She is such a sweetie who we love to bits and I wish I could understand where its all coming from


This is exactly how Gunner behaves (as well as barking at dogs when he sees them in the distance). A behaviourist told us it's not aggression (as he's fine with dogs in the house), but because he doesn't know how to 'speak dog'. He can't read the signals, and gets over-excited and stressed. If I stop to talk to another dog walker I make sure he isn't allowed to sniff the other dog's face, and keep a bit of distance between them. He's very much a work in progress but it worked like a treat today – met a friend with a dog he's always barked/lunged at and after a few initial barks, he let me stand and talk to the lady for ages without making a sound. I kept about 5 ft between him and her dog and he wasn't even interested in her. 

Keep going, you'll get there!