Bad walk with Gunner - feeling very discouraged!

[barkyhound]

I posted on here a couple of days ago about helping to socialise Gunner, who is reactive to other dogs. We've been reassured by a behaviourist that it's not aggression, just zero social skills, and since the session with him 2 and a bit weeks ago we've been working hard at training.

Thanks to kamkay and andywillow we're going to be joining a local sight hound group for a walk at the end of the month which I'm sure will help Gunner no end (although we will get a muzzle to be on the safe side!). He's been doing quite well with his training and I can now stop him reacting to dogs barking inside houses. He's also less reactive to dogs in the distance although he does still get very keen, ears up etc and I have to anticipate this and redirect him to stop a reaction - not always easy!

However we had a pretty horrible walk today and I'm feeling really down about it. There are two dogs in this village who Gunner has always had a huge problem with. One is a little fluffy and one is an Irish setter. Both dogs are left out in front gardens all day, both bark like mad at anything and everyone who walks past and the setter in particular is incredibly fearful and aggressive (the owners are idiots - it escaped last year and was running in the road and they weren't bothered!). We had to walk past both today, they kicked off and it was like Gunner went back to square 1, lunging and barking and pulling. It was awful and I just wanted the ground to open up and swallow me!! He wouldn't listen, didn't respond to a loud HEY and I was scared he'd hurt himself because he was pulling on his collar so hard. 

I know getting Gunner to be less reactive will take months, even years to sort out, and I'm totally prepared for that, but please reassure me that we'll crack this one day - and that it's normal to have bad days!

[andywillow]

Don't feel bad, believe me there are plenty of us who've been through exactly the same, myself several times! My first greyhound put me through hell and back with his behaviour but we got there in the end! Patience and a sense of humour come in handy. If he is lunging and spinning on his lead you may find a harness would be beneficial. They are expensive but ruffwear harnesses are fabulous, or Dog games do a perfect fit harness which I also believe are good. Get a double leader and attached one to the harness and the other to the collar and you have much more control. The ruffwear harnesses even have a handle on the back which is good for grabbing hold of in emergencies!
Chin up, keep plodding on, you will get there!

Sue

[barkyhound]

Thanks, Sue. we have a perfect fit harness so I will try that with a double ended lead.

I also wonder if I'm asking too much, too soon from him by walking past these dogs. I think I might avoid them for the time being until we have made a bit more progress. On the same walk, G tried to have a bark at someone's whippet that was being walked past us, and I did manage to stop that (even when it had a bark back)... So there is hope!

It's a good thing he's so darn cute!

[lucyrw]

Bad days can feel so discouraging :-( honestly don't give up, with time and patience it WILL get better! I was going to suggest avoiding those particular trigger dogs but you've said you're going to do that anyway :-) and it's great that you could redirect him on the same walk - when Jackson is really really wound up (usually by seeing cats/foxes/squirrels) he sometimes seems to get into a place where all non-hound dogs are to be hunted, even ones he's happily met before!

Also don't feel embarrassed about him barking - if the dogs are outside all day they'll be barking at everything and everyone so nobody will bat an eyelid that yours joins in! I know how you feel, but remember - do you judge anyone you meet whose dog barks? Didn't think so!

[samburns]

Try not to be disheartened!  I have a reactive girl and I know what its like to have good days and bad days.  Sibs is now pretty good most days with dogs she knows AND that greet her nicely.  There is one dog we see frequently that she always still reacts to (although not as badly as she used to!)  I think you are right to avoid passing those particular dogs for the time being if you can...."too much, too soon" maybe?  I find it helps to focus on the positives so if Gunner is making progress with other dogs at a distance keep practising that, it does take time but you will get there 

You might find this thread really helpful, about Emma's experiences with reactive foster dog Seamus:

greyhoundgap.proboards.com/thread/69319/behaviour-adjustment-training-reactive-dogs

[barkyhound]

Thanks, Lucy and Sam. Feeling better about it now! I think he's having a naughty day anyway which doesn't help! :S Thank you for the link, Sam, I will have a good read later.

[kamkay]

So sorry to read this, Emma-try not to be too downhearted. You seem to be doing all the right things . Having a harness and collar on a double leader will make you feel more in control-I speak as one whose dog launches himself at walls if he spies a cat. If you are free and want to try to walk with me and Jet during the week send me a pm. If nothing else sod's law says that Jet will behave like a total prat , which should make you feel better. Gotta luv 'em:-)

[sammy13]

Bracken can be very reactive with off lead dogs to the point of where he has pulled me over. Both my dogs are also reactive to squirrels, rabbits and especially cats. Saying that we went to the gap show and Bracken was brilliant with all the dogs there. I worry sick when we are on a walk and see a cat yet he will watch them out of the bedroom window and not react.

[greybeard]

Emma - as I said before Kay and Chris are usually walking Tues and Fri.Pm Kay if you think it's feasible.We had a very screwed up lurcher - wish we had realised about Gap before!She was really depressed and pining when her 1/2 sister went to the bridge.Thanks to local Gap members who suggested she might feel happier with other hounds she made slow but steady progress - and we adopted Perry who was a Godsend.If you have some time,trawling through back threads (meet + greets etc) may give some idea of how far Kizzie came.She was always reactive to certain dogs(especially terriers) but especially with strange people - in the end it was amazing how far she let them interact with her.And other Gap members were aware of her issues and warned people off if our attention was distracted.She had whole new world opened up to her - and in her own weird way we think and hope she enjoyed it.It's a whole new world with Gunner - walking with other hounds should help,they recognise other hounds.Doesn't matter if greys,deerhounds,whippets,lurchers etc,they're happy with their own kind - CaTH.

[jodav]

You've had some great advice so far so I would say put all those negatives encounters behind you and move ahead and don't dwell. Realistically it will take time but you say you are prepared for that. In my opinion, dogs repeat entrenched behaviours which is why they so readily bark and lunge at unknown scary dogs and it takes time for them to change their choices. Behaviour Adjustment Training in the threads already mentioned can really help. Group walks also will help - they were a turning point for us. One of my dogs has been very reactive in the past but with positive training and new experiences, has become much calmer. Carefully select where you walk to set up as many positives as possible and I'd avoid the front garden dogs until you have more communication with Gunner also teach your choice of checking in with you on a walk eg watch me.
Jo x

[Ted]

All four of my present Hounds were takem by me to training with A1K9 where they met all other breeds of dogs. At first it was the small terrier types that caused most of the problems. However as the first and last 5 minutes of each hour's training session was off lead with all the owners/handlers out of the way so the dogs were able to interact with each other these days I have no problems except both females will bark when they see other dogs and walkers but there is no aggression, but some people reaction can be disturbing and I have seen them divert from having to come past us. Many people however these days who know my Hounds use them for socialising their own "New Dog". The main problem we still have is people with small terrier (Jack Russell) dogs that have not socialised their dogs to other dogs and they can be quite aggressive. So all four of my Hounds make sure they keep away from those dogs as they do not want to be bitten. All four have Hunter Harnessess which have a grab handle as my two eldest are safe off the lead and the two youngest are escape artists so they are always on the lead unless in secure areas like the gardens at Little Dumpledale Farm. I always use double ended leads but only connect it to their Harness, the other end is used as a handle. I always have all four on the lead if I am in areas where there are cats about and any type of traffic, and they all go mad at seeing squirrels, rabbits, hares and any other furry beasty plus pidgeons and ducks. It does take a lot of time and effort to get some dogs really socialised to other dogs it can be fear that the other dog may go into attack mode. It can be our social skills that lets us worry about the reaction of our own dogs to other people's dogs. Please try to remember dogs have a completly different attitude to life compared with that expected by humans.

[barkyhound]

Thank you for the messages, everyone! We had a MUCH better walk this evening. I remembered we had a soft lunge line with a broken handle so I cut it down and sewed a clip from another lead to the end to make a double ended lead for his harness and collar. We went out to a local trail and it worked really well - the only dog he reacted to was a guard dog patrolling a fence by a building site which we didn't realise was there beforehand, and we managed to calm him down pretty quickly. He even ignored a pack of off lead collies out for a run with their owners, which would usually send him barmy, especially as one started to run towards him. Needless to say he got a huge fuss for being so good. Feel a lot more positive again now and we'll definitely avoid those two front garden dogs for now. I know he'll get there eventually!

Kay, I'll pm you, thanks.

[gazer]

Great advice here already which I can only echo.  One thing you should try not to worry about is other peoples reactions and what they may be thinking.  I had a very reactive lurcher, at the bridge now bless him and I still have a reactive girl and another girl who reacts to her, i.e. she redirects.  When we see a 'problem' and they kick off it must look awful to the untrained eye. Do I give a stuff, absolutely not, my concern is for my dogs and getting them out of the situation as quickly as I can.  Be confident, this will help Gunner, you are doing it right but it does take time, praise where praise is due for your boy and avoid the areas you know could cause problems. You will learn what his reaction distance is, i.e. how close you can be to something before he starts to 'let it go'.  Then you can distract and talk to him as you go along as I'm sure you know once Gunner is in full kicking, shouting mode he can't hear a damn word you are saying.  Also once you've already encountered a problem on the walk, Gunner is already hyped up and more likely to react to something else. I'm also a user of muzzles, harnesses and double ended leads.  I'm sure we give the 'don't mess with me' impression but if that means people cross the road to avoid us that's great, means I don't have to,

Good luck with Gunner and don't forget, enjoy him

[barkyhound]

Thank you, Jacqui! I made sure I was concentrating on the positives on tonight's walk and realised that he is generally a lot calmer on walks now (no reacting to cars driving past any more - hooray!) and doesn't react as badly to strange dogs walking past, even when he does react. A couple of collies on someone's drive caught us by surprise but I got him past them and fussed him once he'd calmed down again. Like you say, who cares what other people think?

Then we came home and had a game of fetch in the garden which was awesome. He might be a little monkey but we do adore him!