Feeding Babe (hound with tumour)

[janelund]

Hi chaps, hoping someone will be able to help us with this one :-) Some of you know that we're fostering Babe and that she's pretty poorly - she has chylothorax (fluid on the lungs), pneumonia and a collapsed lung and we've agreed with Lisa and the vets that she won't be having any more invasive attempts to diagnose the cause (it is almost certainly a tumour somewhere). So it's palliative care from now on.

she is enjoyng her walks still and getting lots of spoiling. But she is dropping weight (as expected) despite 3-4 meals a day of mince, chicken, fish and a good quality dog pate.

i rang the vet and they have recommended Hills n/d, so I've ordered some but I just wondered if anyone had any suggestions as to what we can do to help her?

Thanks all
Jane
x

[mrhoads]

Hi Jane,

I have really been thinking of Babe, she is so young and she has hardly had a chance at the couch potato lifestyle.

You haven't mentioned whether she is struggling to eat. She may have stopped feeling hungry as there is increasing internal pressure from the build up of fluids, etc.

At this stage, personally I would give her anything she likes and will eat. If you can stomach giving her liver, and she likes it, I would give it to her. I would also try calorific dairy and eggs (as long as they don't upset her insides too much). Mmm, cheesy omelette! Boiled rice is also easy to digest. See how she likes the Hill's n/d.

With the lack of appetite may come a certain amount of nausea. A fan in the face is apparently very good for suppressing the gagging reflex (which is why cracking open the car window when you feel carsick can help). If she tolerates a fan, it may help with the nausea, and perhaps with some of the shortness of breath, too.

Sorry that I can't say I have personally nursed a dog through a tumour like Babe's, but Tigger lost a lot of weight at the end with her 'multifocal orthopaedic problems', and we spoiled her rotten. All of my cancer experience comes from people, but the principles should be similar.

Good luck with Babe, please let us know how she keeps.

X Mary

[julies]

Hi Jane

My vets homeopathic and conventional said give mine whatever they would eat when I was nursing them thro tumours, bad hearts etc etc

I wouldn't feed a Complete dog food but there is a pate which will give Babe all her daily nutritional requirements in a small tub, I think it's only available thro your vet but some of the internet suppliers may be cheaper. My last bridge girl Tigger responded erally well to homeopathy- her Spindle Cell Tumour shrank, she began to gobble food when she had previously had to be tempted to eat anything and unfortunately we think as it vanished the tumour moved , caused a blockage and she died in her sleep Homeopathy is much cheaper than conventional medicine.

Tig actually started eating when I gave her Neem Sticks- if you want to PM me I'll put a packet in the post .. I didn't think she would eat something she had to chew but bless her- contrary to the end, she began to munch them - I gave her as many as she would eat .. they are also a diuretic so would help move the fluid (my bridge boy Moke had his vet diuretic halved when I gave him Neem), Neem multi capsules may help too.

Tig also ate (bits of) Tesco steak and kidney puddings, their S&K pies, beef in gravy, fish (when her heart was moved by the tumour ) in fact most things protein which my homeopathic vet said was because she was trying to rebuild her body, I gave her Greek yoghurt as it was fatty and I crunched up Marrowbone snacks so it was easier for her to eat them, some of the supermarkets treats are quite fatty plus they encouraged Tig to eat so i'd mix them into other foods ... I gave as many little feeds as I could manage rather tha overload her with one or two huge meals and I kept a list of what she'd eaten as I was sure she wasn't eating anything but when I lsted it she was and I could see she was eating a bit more ... oily fish should help put weight on (oil is very high in calories) and is smelly so may encourage her to eat oh andf the A La Bark baking book has some fab receipes for casseroles and turkey gobblers and stuff that would also be worth a try

Hope this helps

Julie x

[janelund]

Hi Mary and Julie, thanks so much for your replies, you've been way more helpful than the vet!! Will be trying your suggstions and agree that basically anything she will eat is a good principal. Luckily, she is still eating reasonably well (we're giving her 4 small meals a day to make it easier on her digestive system) although she gone off fish unfortunately - but Julie's mention of A La Bark reminded me of the sardine cake recipe I've had from Gap before (never known a hound resist it).

I'm actually a bit cross with the vets cos I rang for advice and got put through to a nurse who recommended the Hills n/d stuff. When I looked it up online I saw it wasn't recommended for dogs where fluid retention is a problem (which is Babe!) so I spoke to a vet who confirmed it's not ideal cos it's too high in fat, which increases the production of lymphatic fluid (the stuff in her lungs). I should be fair on the nurse though as chylothorax in dogs is really rare but you'd think there might be a double check system, wouldn't you??

Thanks for the advice again -I'm off to get some liver and greek yoghurt - we've got eggs and cheese so a nice cheesy omelete for tea tonight. Thanks for the offer of the Neem sticks, Julie, that's so kind but I'll try and get them online (I don't want to put you to any trouble).

Mary, you're right, she is very young for all this (only 5 and a half) and it's heartbreaking cos she's such an angel but (and I think I might be imagining this but will check it properly!) I think she has gained a little weight this week since her dramatic loss last week (perhaps because she's been getting spoiled). She's pretty chipper in herself too - you know the way hounds just are, even when they are poorly. She's still looking out for cats on walks too, all ears up - if you didn't know she was ill, you'd be hard pushed to spot it.

Will keep you updated.

Jane
x

[julies]

Hi Jane

And a big glass of whatever for you too as it's so stressful nursing doesn't it take over your life

My lot would really recommended the Turkey Gobbler in the A La BArk book and it has cheese in it too so must be fattening I'm more than happy to post you a packet of Neem (I only offer to do what I want I'm not that nice but don't tell people LOL) , I'd also recommend the Neem Multi Capsules which give energy and are anti viral/fungal and bacterial and I feed them with the Tumeric capsules cos they enhance each other

I'm not surprised by your experience of vets ... the really good, caring ones seem to be few and far between

best of luck

Julie x

[lurcherlot]

I'm sure you've thought of it, but you could soak her kibble to a pulp and get some really fatty mince (Tesco's stripey!) or beefburgers, fish fingers etc .... as much fatty stuff you can think of .... unfortunately, with poorly dogs, they'll eat something once and then refuse it the following time it is offered.
I recently lost a dog with cancer - as soon as he was diagnosed I doubled his food, which gave him plenty in reserve for when the desire to eat stopped.

[janelund]

Thanks Julie and lurcherlot - I'm very sorry for your loss :-( You're right about the refusal...she liked sausages for a while then went off them, ditto sardines. we've just tried her with some corned beef (that went down a treat!). We are feeding her as much as she wants to eat, maybe that's why she's gaining lol.

My David is doing most of the cooking and trying out of food (I'm doing the research and vet trips, we make a good team) he is a total hound-star and I will be pouring some beers down him tonight :-) :-)

Julie, you are really kind and your recommendation led me to Mekuti (for the Neem) and the order will be with us soon. We are thinking of looking for a homeopathic/naturopath vet too (I know there's one round here somewhere).

Fish fingers...we have those, so will try them too.

She had a good day today and shouted at a cat on her walk. It's so good that she doesn't know what's going on! Tomorrow we'll be on the York greyhound and lurcher walk (10.30 at the Fulford Arms, Fulford rd, plug plug) and she always seems to enjoy that although we won't take her all the way round. David has volunteered to bring her back early and wait for us. In the pub....

x

Marvyn and Dolly (our other two) are rather enjoying all this cos they are getting bits too. There is something of a frenzy now at tea time. I thought Marv would fall into his bowl when he got the mince that Babe has gone off....

[Cath]

Fran (francesd) is away on holiday at the mo but her Fletch has had amazing results with a vet from Balanced Being . It might be worth asking her when she's back- it really has transformed Fletch

(Fran is based in North Yorks so it must be somewhere there)


Edit; Fletch didn't have a tumour but was very poorly and the homeopathy made all the difference

[Cath]

Just looked at some old threads . Fletch sees Sue Armstrong at Balanced Being at Weatherby www.balancedbeing.com/

[Tina 1208]

And Chou went to Balanced Being as well and had some relief I think from her irritations from her skin cancer x

[julies]

They sound a great lot- homeopathy, a vet, chiropractic I think etc etc all in one place

J xx

[janelund]

Thanks Cath, that's great, and now you mention it, I remember Fran saying something about this place. (Sorry not to reply before, I don't get online as much as I did!)

Babe doing OK, looking less skinny, still enjoying her food, which is great and actually not coughing at the moment (maybe the diuretics are working - vet said they might help reduce the fluid in her lungs). Given that the vet was ready to put her to sleep 3 weeks ago, she seems to be defying him in style!

Will look up that place, thanks so much again.

x

[julies]

Hi Jane

That's good news - the nice things about our hounds is that they don't listen to vets ...I can only say how much help me and my dogs have had from holistic vets and would really recommend you try one- especially if your vet's talking of putting her to sleep- she'll tell you when she's had enough. Your vet can't refuse to send you for a second opinion or refer you to another vet ...

Best wishes

Julie

[barbaranixon]

What drug is Babe on for her fluid retention ?