Growling and snapping

[marianfl]

We have had Mary for nine months and she hasn't been the easiest of dogs for a first hound!

Shortly after we first adopted her, she became quite space agressive, and would growl if we sat too close to her, so we banned her from the sofas and told her off for growling. Over time this problem went away.

However, she has always been wary of visitors coming to the house, and more often than not she will growl, even if people so much as look at her. Obviously, we tell visitors to ignore her, but she sometimes goes up to them, nudges them for attention and then growls when they stroke her!

Just recently she has gone up to the children a few times apparently looking for attention, and has growled at them when they have stroked her, and today she actually went for my OH when he casually stroked her as she was lying on the one chair she is allowed on, which is in the kitchen. Now, this was probably his fault, as she had been asleep not long before, although she did appear to be awake at the time of the incident.

Reading this back, this probably sounds like she is a nasty agressive dog, but she really isn't - most of the time she is lovely, but the growling is rather unsettling and is now beginning to worry the children. Today's snapping was the first we have had.

The only change we have had recently is that we adopted a second dog 5 weeks ago, but this doesn't seem to have bothered her at all - initially she was very protective of her own space and would bark if he got too close, but she now seems to have accepted him and to like him being around. He's rather nervous and a total softie, who loves fuss and affection. I wouldn't say that the growling has increased since we got him anyway - it's been fairly consistant, and infrequent, but today's snap was the first time she has gone beyond a growl.

If anyone can offer advice, I'd appreciate it. She's a lovely dog, I love her to bits, but I am getting a bit concerned about this behaviour. She's a big dog and can be intimidating, especially when people come to the house.

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[julies]

Hiya Marian

I'll have to do a list cos I'm at work and shouldn't be on here for too long

It's hard to say as I haven't seen the behaviour tho I don't think you always have to see the behaviour to be able to offer advice ..(eg if you say your dog's attacked another I don't have to see another attack before offering advice)
Having worked with ex-racers from the RGT .... so in my experience -
1) Health check especially a chiropractic check- we've had some serious behaviours sorted by a good chiropractor- Google McTimoney for your local chiro .. you'll need a vet approval and they normally charge £20-£25 a session but mine will only suggest a repeat visit if she feels the dog needs it
It's probably ...
fear aggression- she's possibly bottling it up and 'coping' up to a point then can't so growls, grumbles and sometimes has to escalate to a snap/bite. The growling etc 'works' as the ffrightening thing (person,child) goes away so they use it more but underlying is usually fear.

Visitors- keep her behind a childgate and don't let her meet them, give her a Kong behind the gate so she begins to associate visitors with something nice tho both dogs should have Kings which may mean you need to crate one so there aren't arguments.
If you have a dog-confident friend you trust you can set up a meet where the firiend ignores her, if she approaches the friend the friend can drop a piece of liver or similar on the floor but must not try to give it to Mary or touch her, if Mary takes the liver you call her into the next room and leave her behind the gate- she's not put into a position where starngers are trying to ttouch her but when she meets someone other than family then nice, non-confrontational things happen.
CHildren- you may want to consider muzzling her whenthe children are about and give her a place of her own (unless she has one) like a crate where she can go for time out and no-one touches her there ... our RGT bumph always says never approach a dog on its bed because they have never had people do that and beds can be a high resource to guard.
Food - feed less than 20% protein - in our experience any more can cause hyper dogs, my friend swopped her grey to Pork and Potato (Burns) and the dogs sleep aggression practically vanished (and the dog had bitten a couple of people who came too close to her bed.

If you want to bring her to Saturday class for a while to see what's going on with other greys either PM me or ring me on 0774 7754759- we're not there next Saturday ubut are back on Bank Holiday weekend

Julie xx

[marianfl]

Hi Julie

Thanks for taking the time to reply. You have met Mary - she came to Jim's last workshop and had a go at his Jack Russell, if you remember.

As I said at the time, Saturday class is not very convenient for me, and I also live 20 miles north of Birmingham, but I could perhaps come to a couple - I'll be in touch.

Mary did have a crate for quite a while, but we put it away and bought two new beds, as the new dog kept going in it! So they now have a a bed each in the kitchen, a duvet each in the study, plus the chairs they are allowed to go on in the kitchen. The snapping happened when she had been asleep on the chair.

The children are all OK with not touching/approaching her when she's lying down, but it's difficult when she goes up to people apparently looking for attention, and then growls when she is given it. Should we just ignore her apparent requests do you think, and not give her attention at all? Could she possibly be jealous of the new arrival being given attention?

I should also say, we have never had growling at other people outside the home, apart from at the vet! We were at the Chasewater dog awareness event yesterday, took part in the Good Citizens Display with the Dog Training Society I belong to and was as good as gold with the humans and other dogs there, including the Shitzu who was next to us all through the display and the Perry Barr RGT dogs.

So this behaviour is *not* constant, but seems to be confined to the home situation. Very puzzling!

Thanks again, Marian.

[julies]

Hi Marian

Yes I did remember her and she was supposed to be cat friendly wasn't she? Were we doing the 9 oclock class then? We have a class from 9 to 9.50 which may suit but it'd definitely be worth you coming .. if only so we can see what she's like and when she's touched by others... I must find a volunteer LOL

Maybe she was resource guarding 'her' chair .. will she get off when told? or it might simply be she was startled - people do say that their grey can be asleep but it's eyes are open and my Lucy definitely sometimes has her eyes open but she's not very concious so maybe that's why she snapped?

If she's growling after being touched I'd definitely ignore her requests to be touched if she then growls ... I like to be sure there's no health reason for growls or grumbles and I rate chiropractors checks as well if not better than vets for finding tweaks - and sorting them. Ex-racers have all retired for a reason- usually cos they're not fast any more which (in my expereince) is usually due to an injury and not always one a vet or trainer will pick up so I use chiropractors We had one dog come to class who had not long retired and was on his third home, the new owner didn't believe me when I suggested chiro check but when he was free running you could see how uncoordinated he was - he then pinned her against a wall with his paws on her shoulders snarling .. to her credit she took him to a chiro and after three sessions he was the cuddly, happy chap that he should have been and she never had anymore problem with his behaviour

In my experience .. dogs/horses can cope with discomfort - they shut down, my vet says it's because they know that if they show weakness they will be thrown out of the family group so will die so maybe (and it's only a maybe) that's what she does when she's out- her reaction to that JRT suggested that she isn't little dog friendly but (again in my expereience) if they're out somewhere very scarey they will cope with lots of things they don't/can't cope with then when you get them on familiar territory they are more 'honest' - like us they feel they can be upfront and express themselves (gulp ) Also that's one reason why people think 'flooding' is a good way to get dogs/animals/people used to something they are frightened of- but what I find often (and not always) happens is that there's just too much for the dog to kick off at so it shuts down and appears to be very calm and accepting however if the flooding of whatever continues or is repeated then usually -at some point- the dog really can't cope any more and they erupt- usually this reaction appears to be out of all proportion to the 'problem' but it's really the final straw

I would call her to you and give her a treat then let her move away .. I'd be watching her move to see if she's walking correctly or if she seems stiffer on one side, does she always lie on one side, can she get up easily, into the car, does she always turn one way and is she grumbly when her head is raised up? Just builds up a picture so that you can see swhat triggers her grumbling. It maybe that the other dog is causing a bit of jealousy but TBH they are usually glad to have the company and I would expect her to go at him if jealous not at you ..

Hope this helps a bit

J xxx

[Deleted]

Just to give another possibility - I'm slightly puzzled that, if I've understood your post correctly, Mary gave no warning growl when she snapped at your OH? If the other 'growls' are definitely growls, then I would have thought she would show at least that much consideration to him.

Not having seen the behaviour I'm just speculating, but it has made me wonder if the snap was due to space aggression or guarding her chair, but the other noises maybe aren't growls? Some dogs (lurchers and Rottweilers particularly but other breeds too sometimes) make a noise very like a growl when they're happy. I'm really only talking about strokes she has asked for here, but it can be very easy to confuse a happy "talking" with a nervous, unsure growl especially if you've got both going on.

Otherwise, I agree completely with everything Julie has said and especially a health check - make sure her ears aren't hurting her as a bit of infection can make even a gentle head-stroke painful.

Hope you get to the bottom of it soon. One big plus is that she is growling - that's 100 times better than a dog that doesn't let you know what's upsetting her. You have something to work on and good warning, rather than as sometimes happens when a dog has been told off for growling, so they move straight to the next option instead.

Good luck with her.

[dash4misty]

Hi i am not here to give advice just to say that my last girlie used to sleep with her eyes open quite a lot and if anyone touched her she would snap i always used to call her first to wake her and then tempt her with a treat to move her off the sofa
good luck Sue x