Growling - I think nervousness

[Soubrette]

So the lovely Bandit and I are coming across our first big behavioural issue. He has started growling at people

We have had him 3 months now and to start with he was very placid and friendly with everyone, in fact at home if we do something that alarms him (like moving quickly around him when he's asleep) then he'll do a quick bark but no growling.

He's always hated dogs that are in your face though - even friendly ones (bearing in mind he is leaded and muzzled I can't really blame him), he used to lunge at any type of dog that showed an interest on lead and any dog off lead but we've been working on that and now if they ignore him, he will ignore them, if they bark and lunge he will mostly be a little bit interested but mainly ignore them and carry on walking.

However, we have a couple of walkers who have lovely friendly dogs and the owners are very keen to 'introduce' them to Bandit. Originally he would lunge but last time someone tried he just did a low growl, was told no by me and then when the dog approached again he backed up behind me (which is why I wonder if it's because he is nervous). I then told the other owner he was scared and then he stopped trying to introduce his dog.

However, in the last week this behaviour has spread, we have a 12 year old girl who comes round in the mornings and Bandit has always had strokes from her and been fine. Now, he has growled at her twice. I have told him off and tried to get her to get him to sit and treat him when she comes in which seems to be working.

Today, though, we were out walking and started chatting to a lady we meet walking sometimes - she was without her dog. She gently stroked Bandit and he growled again . I couldn't believe it, he loves his cuddles, when we went to the vets he was muzzled and leaded but mugging the nurse for cuddles. We walked on after I'd corrected him and met another lady - she looked as if she was going to go towards him and I explained that he was nervous, he backed away behind me again.

The growl is low and throaty, no teeth and is approx 3 seconds in duration, there is no snarly or barky sound to it. I keep him on a loose lead (holding the handle in my hand across my body and then loosely in my other hand, it is only tightened if he starts to react to a cat or other dog when he is told to leave it and then it is loosened and we carry on walking (only tightening again if he continues his interest - more often with the kitties than the dogs).

I am worried that I am dealing with the situation poorly and thus making his behaviour expand to different situations. I've had a look for ideas on line and the advice seems to vary wildly from growling should never ever be tolerated and punished harshly to the idea that growling when dogs or people invade another dog's space is perfectly acceptable. So I am at a loss and hoping someone can give me some help.

Sou

[Deleted]

You really need to go & see a good behaviourist who can read his body language it's impossible to tell what is going on otherwise. Jim Greenwood is excellent but based 'oop North, I know he is having a workshop in Sheffield if that isn't too far for you?

I wouldn't be telling Bandit off for growling though as he is warning you that he is uncomfortable with the situation, it's the only way he has. If he feels as though he doesn't have the option of telling you that he isn't happy he could go straight to biting.

[Soubrette]

May 4, 2008 9:09:42 GMT -5 wanda said:

You really need to go & see a good behaviourist who can read his body language it's impossible to tell what is going on otherwise. Jim Greenwood is excellent but based 'oop North, I know he is having a workshop in Sheffield if that isn't too far for you?

I wouldn't be telling Bandit off for growling though as he is warning you that he is uncomfortable with the situation, it's the only way he has. If he feels as though he doesn't have the option of telling you that he isn't happy he could go straight to biting.

Thanks Wanda - I'm in Bristol, so sadly Sheffield is a fair old hoof away

Sou

[Sian]

May 4, 2008 9:31:37 GMT -5 Soubrette said:

May 4, 2008 9:09:42 GMT -5 wanda said:

You really need to go & see a good behaviourist who can read his body language it's impossible to tell what is going on otherwise. Jim Greenwood is excellent but based 'oop North, I know he is having a workshop in Sheffield if that isn't too far for you?

I wouldn't be telling Bandit off for growling though as he is warning you that he is uncomfortable with the situation, it's the only way he has. If he feels as though he doesn't have the option of telling you that he isn't happy he could go straight to biting.

Thanks Wanda - I'm in Bristol, so sadly Sheffield is a fair old hoof away

Sou

I am sure Angela Stockdale is near you in Somerset and she is an aggression specialist. I have no experience of her but I know some people like her methods.

I am trying to think of a few others too. Might be worth giving Bath Cats and Dogs home a ring as they may be able to recommend someone.

Good luck, dealing with aggression is hard and can be a long road. Like Wanda said, telling him off for growling will remove the warning signs. I have one that chooses not to growl and as a result his behaviour can seem really unpredictable. Thankfully, I have got used to his body language but that has taken four years!

[Soubrette]

Thanks for that Sian - I'll try and track Angela down and give her a call on Tues, Somerset is only about an hour away from me.

I think in the meantime I'm going to tell 'strangers' to let Bandit approach them in his own time and to ignore him otherwise.

Sou

[Soubrette]

Hey Sian - I've found Angela's website and it says emails are better than phone calls so I've emailed her

Thanks very much

Sou

[Flaperoo]

Leadership. I could be wrong but I think Bandit is getting all worried and anxious because he needs you to be more confident.

This is so easily done. I thought I knew it all...30 years of having dogs (including nervous ones) and then Roo comes along. His fear caused a regretable incident where he bit another dog and then me. The reason; he had lost confidence in me as the pack leader.

Go back to basics. Keep Bandit on a short lead and behind you. When he doesn't growl give him lots of praise or a treat (if he is food oriented). Iif he does growl move on with no fuss. Very importantly, try to relax yourself ( I know easier said than done). I think for some reason (and maybe if you analyse how you behave with him) he has got it into his head that in worrying situations (for him) he has to take charge.

I agree with you, I think it is most likely nervousness but if you work on anticipating, calmly these situations and feeling more confident yourself things will really improve.

It is only two months since the biting incident with Roo and not only has he benefitted from the close lead work, ignoring unwanted behaviour, moving on, and praising wanted behavior routine, so have I. He is much much better but not there yet, but more importantly it has made me very aware of my behaviour snf hoe that contibutes to helping or hindering him.

Good Luck, I'm sure the lovely Bandit will be just fine,

Mary X

[Soubrette]

Hi Mary

I'm glad things are working out so well for you and Roo. I haven't had any contact with Angela Stockdale which is a bit disappointing but I have instituted a few changes of my own.

As to leadership I am sure we (the whole family) give somewhat mixed messages. When he is fed he has to work for breakfast and tea by sitting or lying then staying until released (only about 40 seconds or so - usually he has to wait while I refresh his water bowl). He is absolutely not allowed treats from our plate - if there are meaty leftovers (rarely) then they are put in his bowl or used as training aids. He is not allowed on the furniture or upstairs (we have upstairs pets). However, he is such a sweety that we do all tend to love him perhaps a little bit too much and the girls (12 and 14) are terrible for rolling around on the floor with him.

On the lead he is made to walk by the side with a short but loose lead - he is allowed to sniff but only behind but he chooses what smells are interesting and is allowed to move around although I don't so he is limited by the lead. I have started making him wait while I go through the doors first and also am supervising him more (I say supervising him but it's more the visitors being supervised )

We've taken to walking to the pub and having a soft drink while he has a rest - we sit on an outside table right at the edge - so he can get used to people moving around but nowhere near him.

I have also found that my daughter's friend was trying to smooth him in his crate - he would stick his head out to look at her, so I've told her and reminded the girls that everyone needs to know that his crate means that he is to be left alone, the open door is for his benefit, not ours!! She is still treating him and had a tail wag today but as soon as he'd mugged the treat he still seemed very nervous (the reluctant glances then looking totally away) but seemed happy to come out the crate and hide his head in my lap (he obviously don't realise that this makes him seem unbearably cute and makes everyone in the near vicinity want to stroke him even more ). I also tell visitors to let him approach them and have a sniff and to not be insulted if he chooses not to.

We've had no more problems with growling but I am being vigilant (but relaxed if that makes sense).

I have also been persuaded (mostly by the photos of the lovely hounds here) to get a harness and long lead and I'm going to take him further afield walking and see if we can boost his confidence a bit there too. This won't be for a few weeks though as he's torn a muscle in his shoulder (only a slight one but will take a while to get back to normal).

Thanks Mary for this and the ideas on some games - I'm going to try some paper towels (instead of newspaper or magazines) and see if he can have some fun with that - also I've cut down on his kibble a little and used it to fill a kong so it's dead easy to get out - that gives him a few minutes of fun - although he hasnt' worked out yet that if you move the kong then the treats at the bottom might fall out - he so cute ;D

Sou