Heart Murmurs

[Soubrette]

Hi everyone

You have all given some great advice about getting a lovely black glossy coat and my dog Bandit now looks in much better shape.

However, he has been diagnosed with a heart murmer and possible heart failure as he has a soft dry cough which he does about 5 times a day.

I'm not after any medical advice, just if anyone has had any experience of living with a dog with this condition and what kind of life expectancy and quality of life your dog has.

Bandit is 8.

Many thanks

a worried Sou

[Lisa]

Hiya has the murmur been graded by your vet? They should always give a grading and any advice given will very much depend on what stage the murmur is at

[Soubrette]

Apr 10, 2008 13:07:03 GMT -5 Lisa said:

Hiya has the murmur been graded by your vet? They should always give a grading and any advice given will very much depend on what stage the murmur is at

Hi Lisa, not as yet. He went in to get a Hollywood smile to go with his superdooper black coat and saw a different vet to the one who did his initial assessement (when no mention was made of a heart murmur - just that his teeth needed scaling and polishing with at least one extraction).

The second vet did not want to put him under general and was concerned about the cough (Bandit managed to produce one there and then!) One of the teeth is chronic so the vet wanted to see if his throat glands had maybe got infected hence the cough and so prescribed a weeks worth of antibiotics and we have to monitor the cough. The next thing is trying to see if he has maybe lungworms then finally an xray of the heart.

Despite all of this he did not mention a grade for the heart murmur though, I'll call and ask if he recorded one on their system. He was very concerned about the cough as he said it was indicitive of heart failure (although he also said there were other less serious causes hence the treatments above.)

Sou

Edited cos I can't spell murmur!!

[Princess C]

My Matilda ;D (12 year old greyhound) has a heart murmur - my vet picked it up the first time she saw her when she came here as a foster last February - but it was relatively minor and with care, she had to go through a number of GA's (teeth removal first, then a spay and removal of mammary tumours, then lump removals, and then removal of yet more mammary tumours - she's been really unlucky ) We just monitored it until last December when she started to go downhill very rapidly and we decided that since the grade had changed, her heart was enlarged enough to press on her windpipe and she was starting to show kidney failure, poor love it was time to start medication. She's now on a special heart and kidney support diet and Vetmedin twice a day and is happy as larry. I confess I haven't actually asked the vet how long she has, but I know that when the Vetmedin stops doing its job, there is one other drug that we can try in combination but I'm keeping everything crossed that's a long time in the future.

If you ask for more detail from your vet, he should be able to advise you on whether you need to take action now, or just monitor the situation

You might also ask them whether the cough might be an issue with his larynx and not connected to his heart murmur - Otis, my large lurcher has a 'stiff' larynx, and coughs sometimes (in fact he coughs more than Matilda) which can be a sign of the onset of laryngeal paralysis too.

[Soubrette]

Thanks for the response PrincessC (and I love the snowplough picture )

I am definitely going to phone the vets tomorrow and get a grade for the murmur and start making a list of questions for the vet as I have to phone him next Weds to report on how the antibiotics have worked.

Sou

[Lisa]

Id be very dubious of a diagnostic of heart failure without explorative procedures to be honest. How often is he coughing? Is it worse at night or with excercise and has he been doing it all the time? ALOT of dogs do cough because of mucky teeth so the next stage would be to see if it does get better now after surgery and keep a check on the gums for signs of redness or gingivitis because if there is still infection it may still need treatment.

Panacur is what he would prescribe for heart or lung worm and its usually taken over ten days as opposed to the shorter course used for just worms.

Get the heart murmour graded AND double checked and also ask the vet to palputate the tracchea as older greyhounds can also be prone to a condition called laryngeal paralysis that can be rectified with a relatively simple operation.

Heart x rays and ultra sounds would show if the heart was enlarged and if it was how enlarged the heart was and what the best treatment/course of medication would be.

Fingers crossed that there is a diagnosis one way or the other soon for you all.

[cadbury]

Hi, Sou, first of all don't panic. I've got 3 dogs with different types of heart diease. They are all at different stages but all manage quite well once they are stablised with medication.
Like the others have said there could be other causes for the cough which need crossing off the list first and a full diagnois sorted. Once you've got that there a few hints and tips on diet ect depending on the type of heart probelm.
Let us know how you get on and we can help you with the things we have experianced and have helped.
Nicky ;D

[Soubrette]

Thanks Lisa and Nicky for the reassuring posts - they are much appreciated, I am a bit of worrier. The vet was also reassuring about the murmur though - he said that alot of greyhounds have them and live with them perfectly well.

We've had Bandit for just over 6 weeks now but he has made himself part of the family ;D

I don't know if his cough is worse at night as I'm a mean ol' baggage who makes him sleep downstairs but exercise doesn't seem to affect it.

This was another worry for the vet as he is not allowed off lead yet (he is cat and squirrel keen) and not that good at recall. However we have access to an enclosed field and have been taken him there once a week or so to practise recall. He'll run between us 5 or 6 times at top speed (magnificent to watch) but then he gets tired and just walks between us but we are a good 50m apart. The vet said apart from this he is always on a lead and we don't know what his exercise regime was before we had him so he might be just unfit. He's a heck of a lot fitter than I am though

I'll definitely keep you posted on what happens after I phone tomorrow.

[cadbury]

Is bandit a greyhound or a lurcher? as the stamina can be quite different. Also if he was in rescue before he came to you, his fitness levels will have detoriated but don't worry about that until you've got a diagnoisis and got his manky teeth out.
nicky ;D

[Soubrette]

He's a gorgeous greyhound...



Isn't he lovely ;D

Sou

Edited to add - oh yes, he was a rescue greyhound, ex racer but very little history for the last 4 years or so.

[cadbury]

Okay dokey for a greyhound the sort brusts are normal their altheltes designed for shot fast distances. Don't worry about worrying ask anyone I'm the most nuerotic hound owner on earth, sometimes with no great reason others quite founded.
You've only had Bandit 6 weeks so you are still finding out what is normal for him, there will be marked differance in him once he's got rid of his manky tooth. There have been dogs that have had to have up to 14 teeth out and had other nasty illness but the removal of the teeth all ways gives them a boost and puts them in a much better postion to get thier other medical needs sorted.

If you want to track down a bit more of Bandits history here's a link to the NRG tatto data base.
www.greyhound-data.com/

I had Penny 3 and a half years and joined gap like you looking for advice and reasurance and never looked back, all of us on here have been first time hound owners so we know where your coming from and have learnt along the way. When you go the the vets and they blind you with medical terms it can be quite scary so don't worry it's good to ask questions it's what were here for.
Nicky ;D

[Soubrette]

He has a grade 3 murmur, so middle of the road.

I have to phone the vet next week, bandit's cough rate still seems to be 4-5 times a day (particularly when excited) but he's only been on antibiotics for 3 days so I'm not expecting that to have any effect yet.

I'll ask him about massaging the trachea and also how dangerous it would be for him to have the tooth out asap then.

Thanks for all your help so far guys

Sou

[Lisa]

I would think certainly from the experience ive had that a Grade 3 would be relatively normal progression for a murmur in a middle aged hound especially if the murmur has been there from birth. Fingers crossed you can get to the bottom of his problems soon

[Soubrette]

Thanks for that Lisa, very reassuring.

I have managed to contact the rescue vets who had trouble locating Bandits records so took a few days to track him down in their system.

He was wormed with milbemax so I assume the lungworm (is that the same as heart worm?) shouldn't be a problem. His teeth were done (I can't believe they've got so bad so quickly) and he was diagnosed with an undescended testicle but was castrated anyway. All this was on 26/2/08. They have no record of detecting a heart murmur.

Thanks for the link and reassurance Nicky, his racing name was Colne Valley - he didn't race much but he did win a few

Sou

[Soubrette]

A bit of an update on Bandit, I phoned the vets on Tues and booked him in for next Weds after explaining that the vet had asked for an update when the course of antibiotics ended.

When I gathered all my papers together I realised that we'd actually picked Bandit up from the rescue on 24th Feb so he couldn't have had work done on the 26th so I phoned his original vets and told the work was done mid Jan (teeth, castration, worming etc). As his paperwork also says he was wormed on 22nd Feb I am going to ask the vet to worm/deflea him anyway on his next visit.

When I phoned his current vets, they took details of the original vets saying that they would get his records faxed over.

Today, the actual vet phoned us to check on Bandit. We told him that the antibiotics seem to have reduced the cough but not eliminated it so he has put him on another 7 days worth and asked us to book him in a week Weds instead.

Hopefully in a week and a half time we will be able to ask some questions (as suggested here) and find out where the vet wants to go as regards to investigations.

We've been exercising Bandit off lead in a quiet field practising recall and he does seem to be getting a little fitter too (wish the same could be said for me )

Thanks again for all your reassurances and I'll let you know how things go a week Weds.

Any further suggestions for us or other questions to ask the vet gratefully received.

Sou