Chased a cat :(

[gramps]

Well said Ted. I have nothing against muzzles if they are needed we are lucky ones. On the second day I had Paddy he caught and gave me a rabbit and was so pleased with himself but with a lot of training it can now be controlled.

[greysrus]

Sharon - unfortunately the cat didn't make it

[Lisa]

Do you know how condescending that actually sounds? You have one sighthound who sounds to be honest a walk in the park but has still been allowed to kill. Others have multiples myself included 10 at present. I use a muzzle. They've never killed because I control them. I take on some of the highest prey drive dogs going. I'd not be singing my training prowess if 2 days after owning them I allowed them to kill another animal

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[gramps]

Dec 31, 2015 20:10:14 GMT -5 Lisa said:

Do you know how condescending that actually sounds? You have one sighthound who sounds to be honest a walk in the park but has still been allowed to kill. Others have multiples myself included 10 at present. I use a muzzle. They've never killed because I control them. I take on some of the highest prey drive dogs going. I'd not be singing my training prowess if 2 days after owning them I allowed them to kill another animal

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I take it that was pointed at me Lisa, OK after four years of hard training I have a dog to be proud of, and now is as you put it "A walk in the park"
If after two days with a dog if you can stop a 40mph dog catching anything I bow to your prowess but he was doing what he was trained to do and he thought was right at the time.
Training takes time, lines must be drawn and stuck to there is no easy way.

[Lisa]

He shouldn't of been off lead and unmuzzled after two days. It's nothing to do with the speed he can run but the very fact after 2 days of ownership you had no bond or control over him. Some dogs need muzzles. Some can not be trained out of prey behaviour. Not all dogs are the same. I keep seeing advice being given out that quite frankly could be dangerous. People are asking for advice for issues they have now not 4 years in the future.

If a dog poses any threat to other animals outside it should be muzzled so that the risk is removed to the best of the owners ability. It doesn't matter one jot what other people think. I'd rather a Jrt owner wondered off ignorant thinking my greyhound was aggressive because it was wearing a muzzle rather than an off lead Jrt running over to my on lead but unmuzzled greyhound and potentially dying.

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[Ted]

I use to take a Greyhound walking for Binfield Dog Rescue who had to be muzzled and kept on the lead as he would rake any dog that came up to him with his teeth, so it was not worth the risk. With all of mine I took them to training on the Bronze level award scheme where they met and became use to all other types of dog both various breeds and sizes. Once I was certain they could be trusted around other dogs and humans, although none are cat safe, two of my present Hounds can be off the lead in traffic free areas, but all are always on the lead when out of those areas. I also have safety gates all around in my Dog Wagon so that I have full control of their leads connected to their harnesses before they can get out the Dog Wagon. I always when they are inside the secure area of the Dog Wagon leave their leads on them and if I am taking any of them to the vets I always ensure Mickey, who because of nil recall, has his lead also fixed to the strong wire surround of the safety gate so that he can't get out and run away. Not long after I had him back in 2011 he was let out via the front gate when someone placing junk mail in the letter box decided to open the front gate even though it states dog's loose. Therefore I have had a lock placed on that gate so that it can't be opened without me being there. Some people either do not care nor read notices so if you have Hounds you have to ensure you have full control of them and their environment, as it is your responsibility for the safety of your Hounds and other animals and people.

Please remember all racing Greyhounds are chasers as they chase whilst racing and I have been told that in Ireland they are trained by using the skin of animals on the lure. So it is perfectly natural for them when they are retired to want to chase any furries, plus most of them will never have met any type of dog except a Greyhound. I remember when I rehomed Merlin in 2007 he was okay with my other Greyhound Missy straight away but was very puzzled when we arrived at our home by my German Shepherd Dog Mimi he could not understand that she was also a dog, took him a number of weeks to learn about other types of dog.

[gramps]

In a secure field with no other dogs where better to train a dog and find out what problems you have? I did not put the bunny there.

[lurcherlot]

As Lisa said, your dog, regardless of the fact that there was nobody in the field, should not have been off lead and unmuzzled ... another dog walker could have walked in at any time, and your dog could have attacked said dog. Risks should not be taken when you had only had the dog for 2 days - you had absolutely no bond with the dog at that juncture.

[vickyb]

Most people don't have the luxury of a safe secure presumably private field. At one time where I walk there were a couple of people with multiple JRT's, tiny white ones and they were always off lead, often out of sight of the owner. They used to zoom about and on several occasions actually ran under my onlead hounds and out between their front legs  Fortunately mine were muzzled or there would almost certainly have been a dead JRT, a single bite to the back of the neck would have seen to that.

My point? I can't control other stupid owners who choose to put their dogs at risk but I sure as hell can keep my dogs safe from allegations of being dangerous dogs and let's be honest it's always the bigger dog that gets the blame. If a dog of any breed is likely to kill then use a muzzle. I would actually like to see muzzle use increased across all breeds since having 2 of my dogs bitten in separate incidents a few years back. My dogs were not at fault and were bitten from behind coming back to me and did not retaliate.

I find I get a very positive response from people over muzzles once I explain why, in fact a lot of people do know why greyhounds are muzzled and aren't frightened of them. As I say to people, the dog to be frightened of isn't the one wearing a muzzle!

[gazer]

I second your comment about increased muzzle use across all breeds Vicky.  None of my hounds have been seriously bitten but I seem to hear about a lot of owners who's dogs have been attacked and injured.

[alfiemoon]

I always muzzle Alfie when off lead and often get asked 'why the muzzle?'. We've had him for three years now.

I find it difficult to get people to understand that it's mostly a precaution against him injuring another dog. He's not aggressive, but can react/chase certain dogs if they disagree with him (i.e. flighty spaniels or bolshy young male black labs are his worst). When he does this he grabs at the other like lurchers do, or will stand over and bark at a submissive dog. This is something that rarely ever happens now that we have learnt to understand the trigger type dogs, but there's always the chance we could get caught out, and the muzzle gave us the confidence to do this.

The Alfie they see is usually good with their dogs because we meet them regularly and they've been introduced properly and I know he's okay with them. If I'm not sure, I pop him on lead.

Just this morning, we saw a young couple with two pointers...the type Alfie would enjoy running down, so we popped him on lead. They put both theirs on lead too, but the look of fear on the woman's face as they walked past us (as far away as they possibly could on the path) was unbelievable! He'd been as good as gold, no barking or reacting at all to their dogs so I can only assume it was because of the muzzle that she was scared of him.

Greta initially wore a muzzle even on lead for several months when we first got her, as she was anxious meeting other dogs and defensively snapped at any that came to say hello.

With a lot of work and reward training, she's now fine and no longer wears a muzzle, as it's not necessary. She does like to chase birds for a bit of fun but they always manage to fly off well before she reaches them. If I was in any doubt though, she would also wear a muzzle.

I sometimes worry that Alfie wouldn't be able to defend himself if attacked by another dog, but then there can also be no false allegations that Alfie bit the attacking dog, so it's a double edged sword.

[greybeard]

Muzzles are always controversial. Perry was our 1st exracer and yes,even at 8 he still had a high prey drive Also all the problems of recognising other dogs as dogs.We have never had the luxury of a "safe" field - but he will chase pigeons and squirrels in the garden.It was at least a good 6 months before he was muzzle free.And little Jem is still mainly muzzled cos she's still in scavenger mode,and with her history of pancreatitis we can't risk that.They both hate cats - at least our neighbour's cat learnt not to come in the garden,having akmost lost1 of it's 9 lives.So we shrug off adverse comments about muzzles.BUT the point is we would never have dreamed of having hounds off lead and unmuzzled after only 2 days - Cath.

[Lisa]

You have more chance of protecting Alfie yourself if he's muzzled and he gets attacked. It's much easier to seperate 2 dogs if ones wearing a muzzle you deal with the one that's not by grabbing it's back legs and lifting it into a wheelbarrow position. 2 dogs using teeth not so easy. It's our duty to protect our dogs not theirs to protect themselves and our own dog being muzzled gives us a much better chance of just that

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[alfiemoon]

Jan 1, 2016 13:20:18 GMT -5 Lisa said:

You have more chance of protecting Alfie yourself if he's muzzled and he gets attacked. It's much easier to seperate 2 dogs if ones wearing a muzzle you deal with the one that's not by grabbing it's back legs and lifting it into a wheelbarrow position. 2 dogs using teeth not so easy. It's our duty to protect our dogs not theirs to protect themselves and our own dog being muzzled gives us a much better chance of just that

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This is my view also Lisa. I've been in a situation where I was fostering a dog, it was muzzled, and was attacked by another dog on a walk.

We only had one set of jaws to deal with.

[gramps]

There is a big difference between field dogs and racers. A trained field dog will walk behind you and out of sight of any prey until waved forward. A field dog will look where you are pointing not at the end of your finger. All of which can be judged on lead over a couple of days so there was very little risk at 7.30 am in a closed field also he had been trained to a whistle over that time I don't hang about. Paddy has never hurt a cat or another dog so why people are getting so worried about it I don't know.
I do not say without 50 years of experience training dogs I would feel confident enough to read a dog that well but at 72 I am not an idiot.