ritab
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Post by ritab on Apr 3, 2014 2:38:06 GMT -5
I know more and more people are feeding raw and I'm wondering how the increased protein level affects the dogs. As RGT recommend a protein level of about 20% this leads to foods such as Burns. However I'm wanting to feed one of the better quality foods (I have Orijen in mind) but the protein level is 38%. I thought I could maybe mix it with Natures Menu Mixer to lower the protein content.
Do raw feeders bother about the protein content? I'd like to get my dogs in better condition without lots of extras, but how is behaviour affected with higher protein?
Hope someone can advise me, as I'm confused by the conflicting information - some vets think high protein is OK and some don't. What are other peoples experiences.
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Post by alexandsteve on Apr 3, 2014 3:54:40 GMT -5
Not really sure but 38%wow! I feed 18.5% (burns) which suits my girl Ceecee but doesn't suit all dogs. Don't know about raw but I'm interested to know that too! Xxx
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Post by Nettie on Apr 3, 2014 8:14:19 GMT -5
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dite
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Post by dite on Apr 3, 2014 12:10:45 GMT -5
A good link from Nettie - hadn't seen that one. I feed raw and am evangelical about it as are most people that go over to it. There are no problems with the protein content, and there are now a lot of excellent completes that make it very easy to get the right balance of meat, offal, bone and veg. I have just gone over to Nutriment and feed my 2 for just over £2 a day. You can do it cheaper if you have a good butcher for freebies or are prepared to buy in bulk/ make up the meals yourself. I had a lurcher with food intolerance and a whippet that was v picky, now both lick the bowls clean and are in great shape! Good luck whatever you decide  |
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Post by Sian on Apr 5, 2014 6:05:14 GMT -5
Personally I ignore much of the discussion about protein levels and focus on the QUALITY of the protein. In foods such as Orijen and are then the protein is of very good quality and in my experience causes no problems.
I feed mine raw, started with DAF, moved to Nutriment, the dogs now object to that so now it is mostly MVM which they love. There have never been any issues with regards to behaviour or health while feeding it.
I have also bought Simpsons 80/20 as I had planned to feed a meal of kibble and a meal of raw but it was more of a faff to be honest and with little financial gain. The kibble was excellent quality though (similar to Orijen but British made) and the dogs loved it.
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Post by julies on Apr 5, 2014 13:12:49 GMT -5
Hi I feed raw and I understand that the protein in raw foods is more digestible or a different type BUT I'm no scientist so am not certain. I run a dog training class for greys and lurchers and work a lot with the retired greys at Perry Barr RGT and in my experience the protein levels in a complete food can have a detrimental affect on a greyhound's behaviour and temperament  I've known greys and lurchers who have been aggressive (and bitten) or hyper or skinny on complete foods with a high protein level (ie over 20%) or on foods to which they have an intolerance. I always say to people that I'm not a nutritionist BUT it's worth changing to Burns or raw or a similar low-protein food and seeing if your dog's behaviour changes ... you can always change back Don't forget that with horse and dog food the one thing they always increase for performance foods (ie for racing greys or competition horses etc) is the protein levels so there must be an effect Julie |
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Post by jodav on Apr 5, 2014 14:12:28 GMT -5
Personally I ignore much of the discussion about protein levels and focus on the QUALITY of the protein. In foods such as Orijen and are then the protein is of very good quality and in my experience causes no problems. I feed mine raw, started with DAF, moved to Nutriment, the dogs now object to that so now it is mostly MVM which they love. There have never been any issues with regards to behaviour or health while feeding it. I have also bought Simpsons 80/20 as I had planned to feed a meal of kibble and a meal of raw but it was more of a faff to be honest and with little financial gain. The kibble was excellent quality though (similar to Orijen but British made) and the dogs loved it. I wholeheartedly agree that it is the quality of the protein in the food that is important. It is very convenient and easy for manufacturers to focus on a number ie 20% and for us the purchasers to go along with it willingly - the 20% could be anything loosely related to a meat product or it could be a reasonably good meat product - the term 'meat and animal derivatives is open-ended and changeable ie you're not always guaranteed to get the same protein in the product. I feed partly kibble with home cooked - if I'm cooking them chicken, then chicken is definitely what they're eating, with some veg thrown in. No experience of raw although I've heard only good things. |
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Post by vickyb on Apr 5, 2014 16:36:53 GMT -5
I agree with the others that it's the quality of the protein that's more important than the amount. I've tried Orijen but found it gave them dire rear. Maddie has had Acana which is made by the same company and has 28% protein. She's had the chicken and potato and the fish ones. The only thing I found was that oddly she got slightly constipated but didn't poo much but was otherwise fine on them but she tends to get fed up of any food so likes variety.
Both her and Gracie are currently on Lilys kitchen which 21% protein but it's organic human grade meat and the kibble smells gorgeous. Gracie has grain free Chicken and duck which has sweet potato for its main carbohydrate and it's literally the only kibble that she can have after having food tolerance tests which show she's intolerant of almost everything. Maddie has the lamb kibble just because she likes it. They have perfect tummies and not too much poo. Sapphy and Bod have Angel petco as Bod likes it and it's the best food I've found for Sapphys very delicate tummy. Maddie had it too sometimes. It's 26% protein.
I add a little wet food too for variety, usually natures menu country hunter cans as they are grain and potato free and the only ones that fit Gracies diet or Lilys kitchen wet or Naturo trays.
I also home cook some food for them, often minced turkey, sweet potato and they love roasted butter nut squash.
Is it the cubes of Natures Menu country hunter mixer you were thinking of adding? Ours get a handful of it for supper and love it!
I've found that since changing to the more expensive foods they rarely have wind or tummy trouble and look really healthy and shiny and have less dandruff and sleep through the night unlike on some cheaper foods with more filler when they produce more poo and often need to go out in the night.
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Post by julies on Apr 6, 2014 14:34:16 GMT -5
Nature's Menu look to have a nice lot of new foods- I bought some Venison freeze dried cubes the other day at the warehouse and mine loved them XX |
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Post by vickyb on Apr 6, 2014 16:08:06 GMT -5
Nature's Menu look to have a nice lot of new foods- I bought some Venison freeze dried cubes the other day at the warehouse and mine loved them XX Yes the new stuff is good, ours love the freeze dried cubes too but they are a bit expensive for 4! |
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ritab
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Post by ritab on Apr 7, 2014 2:19:58 GMT -5
Thanks for lots of suggestions - I feed Burns Pork & Potato at the moment, with other things like coconut oil, ev Primrose, sardines. I'm always trying to improve the coat and skin condition. Someone drew my attention to the amount of maize in the Pork & Potato and I thought it might be better to use Natures Menu mixer as a filler as it has lots of nice things in it (mmmmmm!) and use a higher protein food to compensate. Not keen on feeding raw - don't want to be handling that much raw meat, storage, holidays, etc. I know those who do it say their dogs love it and are in better condition.
I'll definitely look at some of the other suggestions above - but as change has to be very slow for Gizzi it's going to take me ages to find what is right. I'll continue with half Burns until I think I've got it right. Mind you I thought 1/2 Burns, 1/4 Orijen, 1/4 Natures Menu Mixer was complicated, but looking at the replies I see that some people go to much more trouble than me.
I should say that I do add whatever veg we are having for evening meal (unless salad) and sardine or Nature Diet trays. Also their daily allowance is divided into 3 meals. They always eat it and are a healthy weight. Just want their coat and skin to look better.
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Post by vickyb on Apr 7, 2014 8:47:04 GMT -5
Why not have a look as Acana as a gradual move towards Orijen? I know some people have tried that.
Have you considered using Naturediet? we all tend to use it to add a bit of variety but it is a complete food itself. Gracie was fed on it for a while until we found out she shouldn't have rice. I did find she did produced very small amounts of poo on it so needed veggies to bulk her out a bit but she seemed fine on it. I know that sounds daft when I said she shouldn't have rice but her tummy was fine on it but it's a bit complicated with her!!!
Maddie had itchy feet a couple of years back, she was destroying them and had various allergy tests and the only thing that she was positive to was Maize so I avoid all foods with it in. She was on a food with Maize at the time and did seem to improve following a change of diet.
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ritab
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Post by ritab on Apr 7, 2014 9:54:00 GMT -5
I've looked at the Acana ingredient list which seems similar to Orijen but with oats to bulk it out. As the Natures Menu mixer is oat-based I suppose less Orijen and more mixer would amount to the same thing. I just like the look of things with lots of fruit and veg in them.
Rice isn't the best for Gizzi, but a small amount of Naturediet (one tray does 2 of them for 2 days) hasn't upset her so far. She was a very itchy dog when we got her 2 1/2 years ago, but that has gone now thank goodness. I stopped feeding her wheat and beef and I'm very sparing with dairy (a bit of grated cheese on top now and then) and rice.
Our newer dog, Lena, can eat anything without any upsets - she's had raisins (rushed her to the vet but no ill effects) and spring onions and anything she can find (too many rabbit droppings do make her throw up though!). I have to be very careful with anything remotely edible or she's eaten it before I've even noticed she's there.
Will she eventually get used to the idea that I WILL feed her regularly?
On the subject of diet, I feed Sea Jerky as an evening treat, but when I tried a fishy food I found the smell overpowering. The idea of a fish based diet does appeal to me but are there any that don't have a strong fishy smell?
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Post by vickyb on Apr 7, 2014 16:46:26 GMT -5
Hmm, they do tend to smell fishy but I find Angell pet co salmon and potato isn't too bad (fish4dogs is worse) - or maybe I'm just used to it!!! If you're interested in trying that they are very helpful if you ring them and usually will send some to try. Strangely ours prefer the small bite version rather than the large one which started as Bod had the small bite and they all wanted to pinch it and leave their own which was exactly the same just bigger. Maddie likes Angell salmon for brekkie but Lilys kitchen lamb for tea - bangs head on the wall......  I think Lena will get the idea eventually that food will always be there. Sapphy was an absolute nightmare for what felt like forever but now 3 1/2 yrs on she is much more chilled around food and can be fed with the others, which for a long time was an absolute no no as she just stuck her head in the others bowl given the opportunity which understandably they weren't happy about. Have you tried the new cans of natures menu country hunter range? they're big 600g ones and don't contain rice, wheat or potato, just meat and veggies. It looks and smells good, you can identify the veggies which is always a good sign! |
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ritab
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Post by ritab on Apr 8, 2014 2:19:19 GMT -5
I suppose I've always shied away from tins as the kibble is better for their teeth. However the kibble goes down in one so I don't suppose it makes a difference. I clean their teeth almost every day anyway. I do find that the Natures Menu mixer is good as a treat as they crunch that rather than swallowing it whole - it's a bit big for that.
If I can find cans of Country Hunter locally (Kennelgate, Pets at Home) I'll give some a try but I worked out that it would be v. expensive to feed that. I'm trying not to go too over the top pricewise, but I used to think Burns was too pricey for me. My perspective has changed quite a bit since having greyhounds!!!
I'll also look at the Angell Petco salmon - see if I'd eat it! That's what it seems to be coming down to now.
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