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Post by maxwell on Apr 30, 2012 5:33:00 GMT -5
Hey all, I re-homed a greyhound almost 3 months ago, he only retired from racing last December, he's a beautiful boy with a great nature.. He seems to have settled in well to his new life, surroundings. but one month in he started to be a handful, he was showing some aggressive behaviour, if I was eating he would come in my face, if I tried to push him away he would growl. This we have worked on though and he's understanding the rules here. From day one I let him sleep in my bed, one night I awoke to him standing above me growling, and when disturbed he would also sometimes growl. These were isolated incident's, but last week I got a new bed as my old one was to small for us both  anyways, as this bed is lower he seems to have claimed it as his own.. He will sleep on it during the day now instead of his bed. Yesterday I went to get him off, and he growled at me, I wanted to see how far he would take it so I tried again, and this time he went for me..  So last night I shut him in the lounge, and he was going nuts trying to open the door, so I let him back into the bed to see if he would have learnt that behaviour is unacceptable, and as soon as he settled he started to growl again.. so I marched him back into the lounge where he stayed.. but he didn't settle and barked and cried all night.. I really don't want to limit where he can and cant sleep as I live in a one bedroom flat, so space is limited.. Other than this behaviour he is fantastic.. Any advice? |
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Post by elmuervo on Apr 30, 2012 5:42:32 GMT -5
First things first, please don't panic: He sounds as though he has so-called 'space aggression' which we quite often encounter with ex-working breeds, and certainly with ex-racing greyhounds. He's not nasty, he just has to 'unlearn' - with your help - some of the strategies and coping mechanisms that helped him secure and hold onto the best bed when he was kennelled with another hound.  Bear with me for a few minutes, there's a load of information out there to help you, and tons on here too - I'll go and find it and put some links on here for you to have a look at  LOTS of us have been where you are, including me with our first greyhound, Barney: You'll find tons of support and practical advice on Gap Jo x |
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Post by vickyb on Apr 30, 2012 5:47:06 GMT -5
I wouldn't make a big issue of getting him off the bed, I'd tempt him off with a treat if possible. One of my girls was a nightmare to get off the bed when I wanted to get in and would snap at me but using the treat worked and now she gets off when I tell her without the need for a treat. It did take a while tho. I didn't want to stop her going on it in the day but needed a way to trick her into getting off at night without being confrontational. Have you got a dog gate? I'd put one in the doorway so he can see you. Could you put his bed on the other side of it or nearby so he can still see you? I assume he won't stay in a basket or on a dog bed now but hopefully if he'll settle on the other side of a gate he might in time so you could take the gate down but that's probably some way off. I think you need to get a gate up urgently as i guess the neighbours won't be too happy at the noise  If he's been sleeping ok with you and not been aggressive I'm not sure he's space aggressive, I reckon he might just be trying to push his luck like my girl was as she's not the least space aggressive - she just liked the warm comfy bed all to herself and suggested I move before she remodeled my face but it's fine now Good luck. |
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Post by elmuervo on Apr 30, 2012 5:50:41 GMT -5
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Post by maxwell on Apr 30, 2012 6:13:49 GMT -5
Thanks Jo, Vickyann much appreciate  Yes im sure is space aggression, he obviously rates the bed highly, as I say its hard now to get him off it, I think I will ban him from sleeping on it during the day.. He has a bed in the bedroom, but he only uses it to eat his bones on as for the gate suggestion, this may work! something to certainly consider.. I am taking him to obedience training tomorrow, so this may help also.. |
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Post by elmuervo on Apr 30, 2012 6:27:38 GMT -5
I think he needs to be banned from your bed, certainly for now, just for safety's sake His rumbling and sabre-rattling WILL subside in time, so please don't worry. It might never completely go away, but once you know him really, really well you'll be able to predict exactly how he'll react in all situations, and then you'll all be safe and he'll be far more contented . Barney revealed his true colours the first evening he was here: He was on the settee behind me, I was sitting on the floor in front and I leaned back and invaded his space and boy did I know it! I immediately had an upright snarling greyhound about an inch from the back of my neck, I couldn't see him (which made it worse!) and it was truly terrifying  . So obviously (after that ;D) he was not allowed on our bed, BUT every morning he'd run upstairs to my mum's bedroom (she has a granny flat upstairs), jump on her bed and then bare his teeth at her until she got out! It's amusing now, looking back, but at the time it was awful and we had no experience of anything like it (only having had 'normal' dogs before) and nowhere to turn for help . That's when and why we found Greyhound Gap . . . You need to be gently assertive but not too confrontational about matters. Make a big deal of ensuring that he knows which bed is his, make sure it's nowhere near where you could accidentally touch him while asleep, and as soon as he realizes that his bed area is a private and safe haven that he doesn't need to fight for, he'll be a much more relaxed boy. Jo x |
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Post by vickyb on Apr 30, 2012 6:30:22 GMT -5
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Post by maxwell on Apr 30, 2012 8:12:27 GMT -5
Having read them links Jo, it seems the way forward is to ban him completely from the bed! I know what you mean about invading his space, I must admit, It wasn't nice waking up to a growling dog ready to pounce.. lol But im sure with time we will get there Yes he is neutered vickyanne, and many thanks for the link! |
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Post by jonesmc on Apr 30, 2012 11:40:36 GMT -5
Hi. It sounds to me like he's just pushing his boundaries. Up until last year I had a very big german shepherd cross and every now and again he would test his boundaries. The one I remember the most was under my bed, once he was there he would become very terrortorial, growling and snarling. But you must make sure he knows who's boss and not be afraid of him. We pushed him out with a broom, banned him to the garage for a few hours and blocked up underneath the bed. He soon got the message and became his usual sloppy, cuddly self.
Don't forget, all dogs can smell fear..........
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Post by samburns on Apr 30, 2012 13:39:44 GMT -5
Hi. It sounds to me like he's just pushing his boundaries. Up until last year I had a very big german shepherd cross and every now and again he would test his boundaries. The one I remember the most was under my bed, once he was there he would become very terrortorial, growling and snarling. But you must make sure he knows who's boss and not be afraid of him. We pushed him out with a broom, banned him to the garage for a few hours and blocked up underneath the bed. He soon got the message and became his usual sloppy, cuddly self. Don't forget, all dogs can smell fear.......... You have to understand that greyhounds that have spent their lives kenneled do not (as Jo and Vicky have both eloquently explained) have the same life experiences as dogs brought up in a home environment from puppyhood. Nobody here would advocate taking a broom to their dog  The last thing Maxwell's dog needs is any form of so called 'domination'....he needs showing gently what he should be doing and the advice from Jo and Vicky is spot on IMO. |
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Post by jonesmc on Apr 30, 2012 13:59:35 GMT -5
I'm not very happy with you samburns  You have made me out to be cruel which I have not and never will be to any animal. I did not TAKE a broom to my dog, I placed it between him and myself whilst persuading him to get out from under the bed which is very sensible advice when faced with a dog who is aggressive for whatever reason! And dogs who believe they are top of the pack will become aggressive. Whilst I am new to the ownership of greyhounds I am not new to the ownership of rescued dogs which all of my dogs have been. I cared and loved Barnie for 15 years and was absolutely devasted when he passed away, so much so that I suffered severe depression. Barnie was also not bought up by me from a tiny pup, I actually got him from a rescue centre when he was a year old, after being, starved, having a deformed jaw from being kicked and no muscle tissue in his legs as he had never been walked. So please don't assume you know about the type of person I am and the dogs I have loved and cared for - it is not very nice |
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Post by Cath on Apr 30, 2012 14:08:08 GMT -5
To be honest that was how I read your post as well. That's the problem with forums- it is so easy to misunderstand what is written
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Post by Anthea on Apr 30, 2012 14:15:31 GMT -5
Maxwell
I'm glad your getting good advice on here, I too agree with banning him from the bed it's yours! and you are the leader of a loving pack and he will come to terms with this in time i'm sure.
Gate sounds perfect have a look on gumtree as there is always shed loads of baby stuff on there.
Anthea x
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Post by francesd on Apr 30, 2012 14:27:18 GMT -5
I'm not very happy with you samburns You have made me out to be cruel which I have not and never will be to any animal. I did not TAKE a broom to my dog, I placed it between him and myself whilst persuading him to get out from under the bed which is very sensible advice when faced with a dog who is aggressive for whatever reason! And dogs who believe they are top of the pack will become aggressive. Whilst I am new to the ownership of greyhounds I am not new to the ownership of rescued dogs which all of my dogs have been. I cared and loved Barnie for 15 years and was absolutely devasted when he passed away, so much so that I suffered severe depression. Barnie was also not bought up by me from a tiny pup, I actually got him from a rescue centre when he was a year old, after being, starved, having a deformed jaw from being kicked and no muscle tissue in his legs as he had never been walked. So please don't assume you know about the type of person I am and the dogs I have loved and cared for - it is not very nice I don't feel that samburns has made any assumption about the type of person you are. She has appropriately pointed out to the original poster that greyhounds repond better ( as do most dogs) to a more gentle approach then using dominance. I agree with her. Fran x |
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Post by samburns on Apr 30, 2012 18:15:05 GMT -5
Jonesmc, many people come to Greyhound Gap for advice about issues specific to greyhounds (and sighthounds). Every now and again people ask for more generic advice about problems arising in dogs....but, like Jo, I first came to Gap for greyhound specific advice, as has the OP on this thread. Jo, Vicky and I between us have nine greyhounds (I have also lost one ) and amongst Gappers there is a wealth of experience in greyhound/sighthound ownership. That is not to say we 'know it all', far from it....speaking for myself I am always learning and still frequently ask for advice from those who may have experience in whatever issue comes up. 'Space aggression' is, as Jo says, an issue which does come up fairly frequently, and again as Jo explained is something which is closely linked to the very specific way in which greyhounds live their lives in kennels. My second greyhound, Dickie, is also 'space aggressive' and even though I was not a first time greyhound owner when we homed him, it was something that scared the hell out of me, that I had no experience of, much as Jo describes with Barney and similar to the OP's greyhound. This issue is particularly difficult for greyhound owners, experienced or not, to come to terms with and manage because greyhounds are otherwise one of the most placid breeds of dogs.....the OP emphasises in his posts what a fantastic dog his greyhound is aside from this issue. In fact, having read the links that Jo posted, the OP agreed that his greyhound's behaviour is entirely consistent with 'space aggression'. You posted a different opinion, which you are perfectly entitled to do and sometimes with some issues in the advice section, different opinions are really helpful, something someone may have a different experience of or found a way of dealing with. However, in this case you suggested a completely different explanation for the OP's greyhound's behaviour based on your experience with a GSD. The OP clearly wants to resolve the problem and I'm very glad he came here, he has found a community that understand his dog's issues, his dilemma and worries and will support him through that. People who do not know greyhounds, who have never seen any form of aggression in a dog sadly will not (as you did with your GSD ) stand by their dog, understand that their behaviour is borne of their upbringing and treatment, and will either return the dog to the rescue or (specifically with greyhounds) owner/trainer (to a fate unknown ), or will simply take them to the vet to have them PTS because they deem them to be 'aggressive' My response to you was not a personal attack, it was a disagreement to what you posted based on my own experience of greyhounds and in the context of two experienced greyhound owners, who had posted specific advice, having advised the OP because they had encountered this issue in their own greyhounds. I was not presuming anything. In relation to my comment on puppies, greyhounds tend not to come into rescue younger than about 16 months old when they are rejected by the racing industry. The majority of other breeds of dogs will have been brought up very differently through puppyhood, although of course many will not have known a happy life and many experience neglect and abuse, as your GSD did My point though was that greyhounds for the most part live a VERY different early life (and sadly for the most of them adulthood too) which brings with it, specific issues. The OP's dog is an ex-racer and will have known a different life to a dog that was born into the world destined to be a domestic pet, if that is a better way to describe what I was trying to get over. As Fran says, and as Vicky explains, greyhounds in particular, respond much better to reward based training than to any 'dominance' techniques. In your original post you said you 'pushed him out with a broom', you subsequently said you placed it between you. I used the expression 'take a broom to', - my understanding was that you in some way used a broom to control your dog or protect yourself - I'm neither a dog behaviourist nor experienced with GSDs but that is something I would never ever advise anyone on this forum to do with a greyhound, or something I would ever do with my own greyhounds. This is not a thread about what is appropriate for a GSD showing aggression in an entirely different context and is not a forum to advise on GSD behaviour......I'm afraid I simply do not agree with your further comment ' And dogs who believe they are top of the pack will become aggressive' I only have three dogs, they are not 'aggressive' they do have aggression issues in distinct situations but not towards us due to any 'dominance' issues, and lots of folk here have larger 'packs' of dogs without any aggression problems. My 'space aggressive' dog Dickie is the gentlest, most sensitive, non-aggressive dog I know. He was almost fatally attacked by another dog and did not retaliate. He adores children, is dog and cat friendly. With his 'space aggression' I did not need a broom to protect myself from him or control him, I needed to understand where on earth he was coming from and how to deal with it. He still grumbles, barks at us, bares his teeth even....it is OUR fault when that happens because we have intruded on his space, ...however we have learned to trust him, we know him well enough now after three years not to be scared because he is giving a controlled warning that he is uncomfortable and we accept it is a part of him - it is not as bad or as frequent as it was - we have learned to talk to him to wake him rather than touch him when he is sleeping for example, effectively 'manage' what is something that I personally do not believe can be entirely 'trained out' (although with Dickie his 'space aggression' is 'sleep aggression' mostly, unlike Vicky's girl who was clearly very conscious when she displayed this kind of 'aggression') Please understand that it is extremely important in this advice section (which is not restricted to membership, unlike other parts of the forum) that we give responsible advice as a rescue community.....there is some guidance here: greyhoundgap.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=New&action=display&thread=29788 Sam x |
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