Pain Relief / joint problems Previcox

[leon]

My lurcher Meg has joint problems that have been giving her problems recently. the vet initially started her on Metacam which was amazing - it really took years off her, she was like a pup again. Sadly, after a while, she stopped being able to tolerate it and would get diarrhoea, horrible churning sounds from her belly and awful smelling wind. Finally, she vomitted up a load of blood, so we stopped it.

Her stomach returned to normal, but she slowed right down again. We were given some alternative medication called Previcox which is apparently more tolerable for dogs who have problems with Metacam.

We decided not to give her the pills until she really needed them, so waited a few months until last week when we started her on them. She really picked up again, but after only 3 days, her stomach problems came back with a vengeance. She went off her food and was generally not herself at all, drinking excessively, lethargic, really seriously bad smelling wind, vomitted once.. We've called the vet who doubts it's the previcox as this is not supposed to have side effects, but reading the info leaflet, those symptoms are top of the list! And googling turns up some horror stories where dogs have had similar symptoms on Previcox and died as a result of the medication being continued - liver and kidney failure apparently.

thankfully Meg's stomach is improving and she is eating again. She is still making some seriously offensive smells though - the air is thick in here.

We've stopped the previcox and are going back to the vet next week to discuss alternatives etc, but was wondering if anyone here has had similar experiences with this medication and sighthounds? They are supposed to be much more sensitive to medications etc.

Also - does anyone have a sighthound on pain relief that suits their dog well? It would be good to have some alternatives to discuss with the vet when we go again.

thanks in advance

Leon

[nickyc]

Try Rimadyl, 1/2 tablet daily. Need a vet for this.

I've had exactly the same problems with a black Lab.

Also:

CSJ Get over Herbs
Glucosamine and Chondroitin and although I hate to admit it .... Bioflow Collar.

There are also injections of anti-inflammatories that can stop the stomach problems.

Pm me if I can help more.......I've been through everything with my Lab!

Nx

[vickyb]

We went through Metacam then Rimadyl, both eventually affected Rivers stomach. He's currently on co-codamol and a small amount of steroid (prednisolone) and it is suiting him well. The co-codamol are from the chemist, that we would take, on my vets advice but it's not something you should use without vets say so and dosage advice as it can poison them if they have too much.

His arthritis is pretty bad so we haven't got a lot of choices. Like Nickys lab he has a bioflow collar and has lots of glucosamine/chondroitin and fish/evening primrose oils.
We've tried devils claw but it can affect their stomach like the Metacam/rimady. Green lipped mussel may help too.

I know Tramodol is used for severe pain but it's something my vet tries to avoid as it's very strong and can have bad side effects.

[leon]

thanks for the replies. Lots to think about there. Sadly, rimadyl came before the Metacam and had to be changed too. the whole situation is complicated by meg having heart failure so is on fortekkor and a water tablet to manage the symptoms of that also which I think limits the options as far as pain killers go.

She is able to get up and around without the pain killers but just doesnt walk very far and is quite wobbly, whereas when she takes them there is a marked improvement. Will discuss the steroids and cocodamol with the vet next week. We already give a glucosamine supplement, plus she eats loads of bones so gets natural supplements too. I'll have to look into this bioflow collar - never heard of that before.

[Carol 47]

One of my dogs was initially on metacam,but had to come off it because he started being in kidney failure ,and so couldnt have anti inflammatorys or steroids,and so he was put on tramadol,which,i have to say thankfully he tolerated really well .I did try a bioflow collar which didnt seem to do much for Mort,but, I know with some it works really well ,so, if you would like to try one out before buying one, I am more than willing to send it on loan too you, to see if it would work for Meg . So,if you would like to give it a go please pm me your address,and I will post it off ok.

Carol xxx

[julies]

Hi

Have a look at some of the old threads about arthritis too as lots more suggestions .. my old lurcher had a very bad heart and bad arthritis .. amongst other things (mostly mentioned on this forum on here:=) ) I also gave him Neem Multi capsules from Neem Genie ... they contain Neem and Tumeric .. Neem is an Indian tree with lots of health giving properties and it really helped my boy's heart problems (ask Dave of Neem Genie about Smokey :=) ) and Tumeric is a natural remedy with steroidal properties without the side effects so should help the arthritis oh and Neem is a natural duretic so Moke's Frusemide were reduced from 2 a day to three quarters a day. I also got a book by Don Hamilton called Homeopathic Care of Dogs and Cats which really helped - I got Moke's liver function down within normal levels by using Dan's suggested herbs .. and Moke was on lots of medication. Cortaflex can really help, I gave my old boy Ester C (non acidic Vit C) which really helped him ... see about 'Joanna Budwigs research' on the internet for info.

Have a look too at Richard Allport's vet practice ... he's a homeopathic vet or at least works with herbal remedies too and was raving about the natural arthritis herbal mix they supply ... it's based on Yarrow and quite a few others but would be worth a try and as he's a vet if you get him to prescribe it you could claim it on your insurance ...

Moke was on Metacam and like you say it's a NSAID and can have some horrific side effects .. my boy had to have it so I gave him lots of other things too to try to minimise it :=( My vet did swop him onto Previcox cos it works at a different bit of their body (I think) to Metacam and Rimadyl but it didn't help anywhere near as much as Metacam did so he went back onto that.

My vet also put Moke on Fortekor 20 plus another heart medicine ... Vetmedin, after two of her other patients had been referred to a heart specialist in nearby Kenilworth (Moke was so ill with his heart she thought taking him there would kill him)- my vet said she'd have taken Moke off Fortekor and put him on Vetmedin but apparently giving them both was now recommended so maybe mention that to your vet?

Good luck

Julie x

[leon]

thanks for all your great advice.

Carol - that's a very kind offer re the collar, but just before I read your post, I'd already bought one! I figured it was worth a try.

Meg is back off the food and drinking by the gallon at the moment (although thankfully not making those terrible smells), so I'm really worried that the previcox has damaged her somehow. I know that the water tablets are supposed to increase drinking , but this is ridiculous. And she's started wetting indoors - something she's never done before in 10 years. So back to the vets asap. very sad to see her go downhill so quickly.

[julies]

Excellent book to get - Homeopathic Care of Cats and Dogs by Dan Hamilton ... you can support the liver with Milk Thistle (herb) and I gave alfalfa and Baking Powder to my lurcher which brought his liver and kidney functions back into the normal range ... I had to tweak Moke's water tabs as other things I gave him helped so don't despair and luckily my vet is very open minded so was happy to work with me and the homeopathic vet I take mine to as well .. see what your vet says and remember they're only human with a humans prejudices and likes/dislikes ... so don't always know everything .

Good luck with Meg, she's beautiful

J x

[Carol 47]

Leon, so sorry to hear that Meg isnt too great and is off her food, I know how worrying that must be for you . I just wondered if your vet has done any blood tests with her to see if anything else is going on, as with my little old man, it turned out that he had the start of kidney failure, and, that was another reason he wasnt really eating , it wasnt just the metacam . He ended up having an injection of 3 different things ,which also stimulated his appetite, and then went on fortekor for his kidneys .I really hope and pray that your vet is soon able to sort little Meg out,and, that she then, can get back to having a good quality of life again .

Carol xxx

[muttlies6]

Joe and Ellie (spondylosis) can't tolerate rimadyl, or several of the other tablets so ...

I am using the CSJ Get Over on all my older dogs, plus the one that has had cruciate problems and it has seemed to help. Product details below. You can buy it on line, free delivery from www.csjk9.com. Also a lot of my flyball friends have been buying it to help with muscles after racing.

Product Details
'Get Over!' has been formulated for the very active or more mature dog that is starting to shows of old age - especially in these cold and wet weather conditions. It is extremely effective and can provide that extra bit of help - without the need for steroids or pricey alternatives. Why not give it a try and see for yourself?! P>

Ingredients
Comfrey Leaf, Dandelion, Celery Seed, Nettle, Devils Claw Root, Burdock Root.

Comfrey Leaf can help maintain a healthy digestive system.
Dandelion acts as a tonic and stimulant.
Celery Seed can be helpful for dogs showing signs of stiffness.
Nettle can help to stimulate a dog's appetite - acting like a tonic. The powdered form of the common stinging nettle is often used in cases of flaky or scurfy skin conditions and hair loss where bald patches appear. It can also help the hair to grow back!
Devils Claw Root is a herb from South Africa that can help to maintain healthy joints - beneficial to dogs showing signs of stiffness.
Burdock Root A natural antioxidant - mopping up free radicals.

Hope it helps.

[nickyc]

CSJ Get over does seem to be really good...I'm hugely impressed with it!

Nx

[leon]

thanks for the further advice, it's well received and appreciated.

It is looking like Meg has kidney failure, or a weakness at least. We've stopped the diuretics to see if that reduces her drinking/ urinating but so far, no difference. Next week will be blood tests etc, but the vet is reasonably certain.

Carol, it's interesting that you say it wasn't just the Metacam that was causing the problems. The more I've looked into this, the more personal accounts I've found of dogs been prescribed NSAIs ending up with a digestive reaction and finally kidney failure. I mentioned this to the vet and his take was that Meg's heart weakness had reduced blood flow to the kidneys which had weakened them. Her reaction to metacam and subsequently Previcox, had just highlighted an inevitable deterioration of kidney function. I felt like shouting "if you knew this was possible, why the **** did you give her the NSAIs???". He was well aware of her heart problems. The kidney failure symptoms started immediately when she was upset by the previcox. I am certain that is no coincidence - even if the kidney failure was inevitable, , it may not have happened for weeks, months or even years.

Please, if you are not entirely certain that your dog is otherwise 100% healthy, dont give them these NSAIs. I'm starting to think they are lethal for less than strong dogs.

see here for other previcox cases: www.k911.biz/Petsafety/PrevicoxEmails.htm

[hellie]

From reading this thread on Monday i got my girl into a different vets on Tuesday for advice and we have done bloods and urine today to test for renal failure. It is looking likely that Tilly has things going on that my previous vets have ignored despite loads of different tests we did showing abnormal results in her kidneys and liver yet they still prescribed meds that would potentially do her more harm than good. She is on Metacam and it is likely making her far worse.

I feel furious and cross with myself for not realising as well as with my vet. I have now moved to Peak vets in sheffield who have been amazing and told me more in 1/2hr than i have learnt in years, thank you for this thread i just hope i am not to late.

[vickyb]

Leon and Hellie, sorry that your girls are having problems. Hope something can be done to help them both .

I've had the human equivalent of previcox and it really damaged my stomach, so it worries me that dogs aren't able to say how they feel when on potentially very harmful meds, but then I suppose they do help some dogs. It's such a hard call to make and very bad if you have a vet who has a cavalier approach to prescribing nsaids

[hellie]

Well TIlly has had an ultrasound today and her liver is a mess but her kidneys are fine. She has had loads of pain meds that won't damage her further and is doing much better today. I am feeling a bit more positive that we can manage her pain and keep the old girl comfortable i just don't want her to hurt anymore if we can help it.

They also gave us something to line her stomach so that she is less likely to have her stomach affected by any meds she has.

thanks for the kind words Vickyanne x