Marking or being nervous ? (long and multiple ? )

[banshee]

Hi

Over the last week Rosie has started to leave small puddles for us on the carpet. It only happens during the day and usually they have just been out to do their business in the garden, and i go upstairs for 10-15 minutes. when i leave them Kiwi is glued to the sofa and Rosie is up keeping an eye on where I'm going. when I'm out of sight, she marks and looks guilty when i come down and kiwi will still be on the sofa. She has not done any of her business in the house and is fine if we leave. (From what i know she has not been spayed, and i do not know when her season is due )

Is she marking or is it because she is nervous ?

She will also follow us (specially me) where ever she can and crave my attention as often as she can, this can be pushing my hand, scratching her head on me, getting between me and what I'm doing e.g. stand in front of my laptop when she does not get the attention when she wants. Is this anything to worry about ?

One last thing (ill try and keep it short) I had a minor scare the other day, Kiwi was on one sofa and Rosie wanted to get up and snuggle with him and he went all growl and teeth, the only time i have seen him do that in the 2 weeks we have had Rosie, will this need to be addressed or should i let them sort it out between them ?

Sorry for the long post

[dominique]

Not sure what to advise about the sette business, but i guess that he's laying down the rules, it's early days yet. But the attention seeking could possibly be the start of a seperation anxiety issue. It might be worth investing in some baby gates so that she can still see you, but can't follow you everywhere. She should get the idea that you aren't suddenly going to dissapear, and become more independant and this may help her bond better with Kiwi.
There are a lot of people on here with far, far more experience than myself so hopefully you'll get some really good advice. I can only relate my experiences with my dogs ;D and the baby gates have worked wonders with my needy lurcher and my rescue pup who was convinced that i was going to run off and leave her.

Look at the two threads on this page on 'So you've got your new hound home' and 'Separation anxiety'. They may be useful

[vickyb]

Long and probably rambling reply

We've just had something similar with Maddie our foster grey. She appeared to be doing ok with her housetraining then started to do small wee's on the landing or in the bathroom (our stairs go off the living room and we are happy for them to have the run of the house)
I got similar advice to you and Tony noticed that her eyes followed my every move and she wanted to be at my side even if I was ignoring her. She would go outside, then follow me upstairs and the minute I wasn't watching, do a small wee.

We seem to have solved it (fingers x ) by my ignoring her, we are able to close a door to the landing so stop her accessing it and if I need it open to be in the bedrooms I either put her outside briefly or literally make her stay at my side thus removing the opportunity for a sneaky wee. I know that sounds wrong from the ignoring point but she then comes upstairs on my instruction, not her choice. We didn't get a dog gate as we were having trouble finding a narrow enough one but I have been working on getting her go in her basket and stay there when I tell her which amazingly she will do most of the time

The other thing that seems to have helped is going out more. I don't work so I have made a point of going out for varying amounts of time several times a day and sticking strictly to the NILIF regime of totally ignoring all of them when I come in. I fix my eyes above the worktops and just walk through them if they are milling around me and keep my hands up. I give them attention when I am ready and only after they have settled for a while. It seems to be having miraculous results. I also put her outside and say wee wee if she looks unsettled or it's a while since she went. She gets a small treat and lots of praise for a wee or poo outside. I do find this housetraining hard though

As for the growling, when any of our 4 do it, and they do occasionally, I have my sharp noise that I use to get their attention and to stop unwanted behaviour and I make that, no fuss or names called and it hopefully reminds them that I'm the boss and it seems to nip it in the bud. I will often calmly and without signaling anyone out remove them all from the sofas into their baskets. I know some people say you should let them sort it out but I am not prepared to risk them getting nasty with 4 in a small house.

I feel like Miss Whiplash as I've spent the week being very strict with the NILIF and being pack leader but it's definitely having a positive effect on them all. Not nasty or shouty and they all have lots of cuddles and we play ball outside it's but on my terms. I don't find it easy , but necessary.

I'd say try a stairgate and in the meantime put her lead on if you need to go upstairs and keep her with you so she hasn't got the opportunity to wee. Do you clean it up with biological detergent? On Lisa's advice I always use it to get the smell out thoroughly.
Good luck

mta I wish they'd realise that there aren't secret doors that I'm going to go out of upstairs nor can I jump out of the windows and fly

[banshee]

Hi

thank you both for your replies.

I cant confine the space anymore. She wont go upstairs volunteerly so the dogs are only in the downstairs (lounge and kitchen), i will try and ignore her. I will try that with both of them, it might stop kiwi from jumping up and knocking us over lol

there has been no growling etc since that time, unless play growls (thats what i thinkit is ) when they are out in garden.

[Jen Wren]

Another long post

Jan 9, 2009 18:27:00 GMT -5 banshee said:

One last thing (ill try and keep it short) I had a minor scare the other day, Kiwi was on one sofa and Rosie wanted to get up and snuggle with him and he went all growl and teeth, the only time i have seen him do that in the 2 weeks we have had Rosie, will this need to be addressed or should i let them sort it out between them ?

As far as this point is concerned. Some Greyhounds are very precious about their space and simply do not want to cuddle up, especially at first. None of my hounds cuddle up much but when they do it's usually by accident Goldie is a grotbag and will snarl and growl at one of the dogs for just walking past her, especially if she was asleep.

Some dogs get sleep aggression and if they are taken by surprise they will snarl and growl, I have been on the wrong end of Goldie's temper if I take her by surprise when she's asleep. She looks really sheepish if she realises she has growled at me That's why they say 'let sleeping dogs lie' ;D

Don't worry too much about it. Kiwi is just telling Rosie that jumping on top of him when he's having 'me' time is not acceptable, the dogs will sort themselves out. Remember she is new and they are still setting their boundaries. You will find she will be in charge of him before you know it

If he was growling before she jumped up to warn her off it may be that he is 'resource guarding' Then he is getting too big for his boots and I usually tackle this by restricting access to the settee. You have to send the message to him just who the sofa belongs to - you. If one of my dogs growls to warn another off the sofa, I will make the growler get off, they learn that the sofa is not theirs to guard. My dogs now happily share the sofa but they still don't cuddle ;D

[banshee]

yes i am hoping she will take charge, how ever im not sure about the way it happens, earlier today i found a puncture wound on the inside of one of his back legs, and they only been alone for about 1 hour and 10 min today (im off ill from work) and he is starting to get distructive. Somethings up just not sure what and if he will cope with her as a leader.

Another thing is that i went out for a few minuts, to get som bits and bought a special treat for them, i accidently dropped it and he took it to the sofa, and wouldnt let me take it, and was growling (never had issues before), so maybe he is just trying to take over ?

I have tried to get a hold og a behaviourist that tried to help me with the collie-x, but she has not returned my emails (i sent before new years) or picked up her phone

[vickyb]

Not quite the same thing as you've had but when we first fostered Maddie she had a full on snarling attack at us for trying to take a pigs ear off her. I have always made a point of taking chews and food off the dogs, I give them straight back and non have kicked off like she did.
I wasn't happy at this so when gave her one for the next few weeks I did it in another room from the other dogs and sat next to her, then I let her see that I wanted to touch her, so as not to make her jump, then gradually built up to stroking her head, her face, chin, front paws. If at any time she growled, stopped chewing and was still (ready to attack) or looked not happy I backed off.
After several weeks I can now take chew out of her mouth no problem and before she would growl if the others so much as looked at her when she had one but now she will sit side by side with them all with chews and they pinch each others without anyone getting nasty.
I felt it was important to do this as she is a foster, it's up to you whether you want to try it but I must stress to take it very slowly and calmly and separate them as if someone gets stressed at you they may direct it at the other dog and fly at them.
It did come in useful at xmas when she pinched the turkey carcass out of the bin and we were able to get it straight off her

keep working on the NILIF as it does sound as if they are working out the heirarchy and you need to be at the top

[Alisa Bee]

When Sofi first came she was, despite or maybe because of the previous 2 homes before she came to live with us, was not clean in the house. She is now, though it took patience and the knowledge that she was loved and hopefully the belief that she was, whatever the 'problems', never going anywhere else as long as I am on this Earth!

As for growling, well Finn and Sofi get on very well with each other, they obviously adore each other, yet sometimes he does growl at her, when she dares to want to jump over him to get to somewhere joint and comfortable! It is only noise, he has never actually being aggressive to her, I believe it is just a 'I'm the boss' growl, it doesn't take her long to worm her way around him though. Only time will teach Rosie and Kiwi what is 'allowed' between themselves. ;D

[banshee]

The marking/puddling has almost stopped, she is coming out of her shelf, even though she is on a strict 1 - 2 very short walks doctors orders, and not to happy about that. there has been no more growling, they have snuggled together by them selfs, shes still a bit unsure about kiwi. He is not excactly a polite gentleman. If he gets in trouble and needs to be told of he will run and try and hide with her lol

I think everything will turn out fine, just cant help but worry about these cheeky foodstealing noseaches.

[vickyb]

Jan 16, 2009 13:23:10 GMT -5 banshee said:

I think everything will turn out fine, just cant help but worry about these cheeky foodstealing noseaches.

Welcome to the club I loves 'em so much I worry all the time, especially about my oldies oh and Maddie foster that I'm training her OK for a new life, oh and Gracie just because she deserves someone to worry over her ;D
Vicky x