Bad manners

[houndhomage]

Alexa is a good girl, no probs meeting other dogs. Then we got Becks as a companion for her in April when his family could no longer have him nd he urgently needed a new home. The dogs get on great although he loves to play with her, she is a bit rough.

My problem is his attitude when we're out and about. I just can't tell which way its going to go with him and other dogs. And today he ws just horrid to a really friendly greyhound we bumped into I though he had improved recently

I have them both on the lead and he's muzzled. She's ok, friendly but not excitable - a good girl on and off lead.

He's growling then barking at the big dogs when they come close for a sniff. Most little dogs he's fine with, just a warning growl when they sniff him behind. The madding thing is, about half the time he's ok, has a sniff and potters on. If he's been for a walk with a dog, he's just fine with them sniffing and enjoyes they're company.

Becks is 5 years old, castrated greyhound with a good racing career. He's lovely with all ages of humans and has never been a problem at home. In fact he's a really steady fellow in all other respects.

Walks are becoming a bit of pain I just wory he'll teach Alexa bad manners although she just ignores him showing off and says hello nicely.

Just had to get it off my chest today..

[jackie]

I have a male who won't tolerate most other dogs coming directly towards him. I normally just cross the road or put as much space as possible between him and the approaching dog so that he feels less threatened and tell him to behave and he's fine......unless the other dog barks first or stares at him.


I walk him with our 2 females, one who came here before him and one who joined us after him who are both very tolerant of other dogs and they have never ever tried to copy his behaviour.

[houndhomage]

Thanks, thats good to know, but its he off lead dogs you just can't avoid. But then again off lead dogs are mostly interested in his bum and I've had a good few occasions where other male dogs have tried to mount him. Maybe that's freaked him out?

[FeeFee]

I hate to say it, but I would try to walk them separately for the time being - I know that's probably a pain to fit into the day, but with luck it wouldn't be necessary for too long.

It sounds as though Becks is really unsure of himself around other dogs and needs some very calm socialisation knowing you are in charge and other dogs are no threat, and it's almost impossible to give him that if you are holding on to two dogs. His behaviour could well start to affect Alexa, too.

If you have any friends with dogs who would be willing to meet up that could help - walking a couple of yards apart until the dogs are calm, then getting gradually closer together is a good way to introduce dogs.

I don't know whereabouts you are, but if Jim Greenwood is doing any sessions in your area (there's a thread on the main board about his workshops) try to go along. He gives excellent advice on handling this sort of problem.

[houndhomage]

I'll have to do some 1:1 work with him. Its no fun walking him with Alexa at the mo. Be nice for her to have some relaxed off the lead time with me down the park. Shes a real gem.

I think I might join the 'grumpy dog' class run by Capable Canines. I've hear they're quite good.

I know this sounds awfull, and I feel rotten saying it, but I sometimes feel like returning him and trying another dog. It wont happen though as the kids love him 'madly truly deeply' and actually he's a superb dog at home which is where he spends most his time.

Wish Cesar Milan the dog whisperer lived nearby!!!

[janet456]

I am reading all this with avid interest as I have 2 greys, a girl who is a little wind-up merchant but very sweet and a boy who will frequently kick off at other dogs who approach him. He is muzzled and on a lead and can therefore look quite ferocious.

The "he only want's to say hello" loose labs send him into a near state of fury.

I have varied success when leading him off to one side and letting the dogs pass, sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't.

He loves small dogs so I am thinking that he might be a bit intimidated by the larger ones.

I have three questions:

1. Would one of those citronella spray collars be any good?

2. Also would I be best to lead him away in the opposite direction or confidently march him right on and past what it is that affects him?

3. He has just turned 2 so could it be a case of adolescent tantrums which might just sort themselves out?


Thought I would ask as I don't want to make the situation any worse than it is.

I didn't mean to hijack anybody elses page but thought this would be the best place to ask and my boy does seem to have the same problem.

Many thanks in advance for any suggestions.

Janet

[vickyb]

No experience of the citronella spray collars other than they worked to stop a dog nearby barking when left alone in the house. However someone I know tried one as her dog was unpredictable off lead but it didn't work so she went on to get a shock collar and it has worked although its very extreme not sure if its even legal.

River has never bit anyone but can go off alarming, dogs are able to read his body language and tend to ignore him, it's the owners who can stress out. We went to a Jim Greenwood workshop and he said River is extremely nervous and is a very low status dog, a foot soldier to our pack so he is constantly on the lookout for threats to us all and ready to go into battle for us, to sacrifice himself, even though he knows we are his leaders and our little one is the pack leader amongst the dogs.

He advised us to keep our body between him and the approaching dog, to work on lead control so he is just behind us and hold the lead down so that if he pulls then your arm isn't yanked forwards, try it it does work. Then he said work on a word for safe, can use safe and say it confidently to let your dog know that you are in charge when a dog approaches and he doesn't need to go into attack mode. If he goes off on one, immediately walk in a tight circle away from the approaching dog in front of your own dog. Ideally you'd need a friend to help you out with a stooge dog.

He also spoke at length about dog body language, both what they see and what they give off which helps the owner to anticipate what is likely to happen. And of course your own which communicates down the lead to them, and your language should be confident and calm and walk tall. As for off lead, then perfect recall has to be the answer to avoiding hassles. (a whole other trg issue )
There's so much more you get from Jim and every dog is different, the ideal would be to see him.

Fortunately non of our others have 'caught' it and almost roll eyes at him. He's a lurcher and bad with greys and leggy dogs other than ours, I think its because he knows they are the only ones to stand a chance of catching him if he needs to escape although he has made friends with some if he's seen them often enough.

Sounds as if your boys are protecting your girls a little too much .
I do go out of my way to walk with other owners who are happy to do this and it does help, but he'll never be perfect. Our last dog was a real nightmare if another dog came close to us as he was jealous and it made it impossible to walk with other people and, to be honest I was a lot less knowledgeable as to how to deal with it. I think these days I could have handled him better.
I really do sympathise, and am sorry you feel that way about Becks, I hope you can find a way to make him more manageable but it sounds like he's not going to change Alexa. Is he any different on solo walks?

[FeeFee]

Personally I wouldn't consider a citronella collar for this sort of problem. Dogs react to other dogs for a reason - often because they are scared or see other dogs as rivals to be seen off. If they get sprayed with something nasty every time they see another dog it's going to set up even more negative associations and could make things worse.

Have you considered trying a training class? It can be a good way to get your dog used to having other dogs around (and still doing what you want him to do) in a controlled situation. Improving general obedience helps anyway, as it strengthens the bond with your dog and helps reinforce that you are in charge - so he doesn't have to be!

[janet456]

Thanks for the replies.

Think I might leave the citronella collar for now. We are booked in for a 7 week basic obedience training course starting 15th Jan so shall see how that pans out.

He is a beautiful boy, strong, young and confident so I am hoping that as he matures he might calm it down at bit anyway - and if he doesn't I will just have to accept that's the way he is.

When he is off lead (always muzzled) he has quite a full on, bullish approach to other dogs but settles down quite quickly with them, if they are submissive he's great, if they are not he tends to back off but there is none of the barking. When other dogs are about I don't let him and my girl off together as they tend to "pack up".

I will keep working at it, thanks for the advice - much appreciated. Janet

[Aoj]

If my experience with Brodie is anything to go by, you will find that Becks will be a very different dog in training class when he is on his own and away from Alexa. Brodie is exactly like Becks in his behaviour yet once I got to class, he was a kitten and scared of everything!

[bluegreyhound]

Fanta still has problems with other dogs - freezes and seems fascinated, and then jumps and twirls when they go past. It's different from Eva's chase instinct, which was very strong when we got her, and clearly directed at small furry things. She would just lunge and jump about four feet in the air. Fortunately she's too lazy now. Fanta is concerned about all dogs, no matter what the size.

Fanta is going to dog training every week, and is definitely less fascinated by the dogs in the class that he sees every week, but we still don't get very close to them.

On walks I am having some success by attracting his attention with a gravy bone as the other dog walks by - we passed a big Alasatian this morning and both Eva and Fanta were busy trying to get the gravy bone, and Fanta only glanced at the other dog a few times.

[ragsysmum]

Does he act differently if you walk him on his own? I find mine are much better meeting other dogs when they are out alone with me whereas in pairs they seem to want to show off or defend the other one whether it is needed or not.

[bluegreyhound]

Fanta is bad on his own at dog training, and when walking with Eva, so I don't think it's a protection issue with him.

[houndhomage]

Today we went to Richmond park, me the two kids, Becks and Alexa. Both dogs on the lead and Becks with the trusty muz on.

The dogs were fine watching other dogs whizzing around off lead. One lady with a really friendly Finnish spitz (? husky like dog) stopped to ask about retired greyhounds so I let my two sniff. Becks was fine nose to nose sniffing then stepped back and let out a huge bark. Told him 'no' and he was fine while we chatted for 5 mins or so.

He's ok untill the sniffing gets too intimate.

I had a dark moment when I wrote about feeling like returning him, but Alexa gets on well with him and he's staying with us for sure. Will be booking the classes just for the moral support!

Thanks for all your support, and its good to know others are either going throgh it or have been there to.

Tania

[sharron]

Like feefee said, maybe taking him a training classes would be a answer,Look into a long term dog club, as the ones that only last a few weeks may not be long enough, We have a special class called pre bronze, this is for dogs that have problems either with socializing or other problems. Its a smaller class, and there is no rush. The dogs and handlers then move up to bronze. May be there is something like that in your area.