increasingly worrying behaviour

[donaldforde]

Hi we adopted a Saluki Cross 'Rufus' from a rescue centre when he way appx 8 months old. We are a family with 3 children but lots of previous experience with lurcher and last dog 'Groover' lived very happily in an albeit smaller family for 15 years. My mother has adopted two herself who were also very happy. Always knew what we were buying into with this type of breed, e.g. not strictly a family dog but his behavior is really worrying. Rufus was always pretty nervous and pretty obvious he had been mistreated before adoption. We have been pretty consistent in how we have handled him/ and showed him lots of affection/attention and always in a position to supervise behaviour of the children around him. He was doing really well and fitting in just fine to a point. However despite a sound environment he has got more rather than less nervous and to be frank pretty feral and very aggressive in his behavior as he has got older. Despite this no doubt he is a very sweet dog but there are 'issues' which not sure how to handle.

Two things seem to have contributed to this.

The first was a nasty injury which he got running under newly pruned tree which ripped a nasty gash down his back where he is now nervous/more nervous of anyone touching his back
The second is an intensive course of treatment to cure him of mange [diagnosed to have been in his system from a puppy] The mange was very bad and treatment involved weekly use of very powerful lotion that pretty much knocked him out after. The mange has disappeared but he was very 'down' when it was in full 'bloom' being very sore all round and leading to complete loss of hair on his body. [which has now re-grown]. Treatment lasted 3 months so quite a long time in what is a relatively short life. He used to be generally fine at the vets but now goes wild any near it.

Next move is obviously dog trainer [we first thought it would be a matter of time before things sorted] to book some sessions but underlying issue is that aggression which he demonstrated when obviously very ill continues to manifest itself in increasingly aggressive behavior such as, growling within a 2 mere radius of his bed and actual biting when attempts made to stroke him suddenly which I take as fearful rather than dominant aggression.

We do need to be serious about risks to children and members of general public and would like to ask. Are we missing anything fundamental and welcome a view if formal dog training can get round some of the more underlying issues. ?

Thanks Donald

[Lisa]

Hiya Donald
First of all FULL bloodwork with a vet who knows sighthounds I say that as Aludex which I pressume he was treated with for the mange is VERY powerful and very strong and can be quite dangerous to certain breeds especially sighthounds as their skin is so thin we avoid use and use advocate which is a spot on like frontline instead. I had to use it once on my own dog and it made him very seriously ill, I knew the risk but his skin was so bad we had to try. I cannot begin to imagine how sore and painful three months worth of the treatment would have felt.

The second thing I have picked up on is the fact that you say you have shown him lots of attention and affection. Very often this can be the wrong way to go with a nervous dog and the more you shower them with kindness to re assure them its alright the more you actual reassure them that its not alright and there is something to worry about. Nervous dogs I tend to lay down very set boundaries with carefully then back off completly, let them start to think for themselves and allow them to do things in their own time. Is there a chance that you are over reassuring him and causing him more concern? It may be if you are that he feels you are putting more responsibility and pressure on him than he can handle.

After the incident with the bush I think you need to go slowly. How is he with you petting or handling him when he is lying down and relaxed? Have a read about T Touch and maybe work on some gentle massage when he is sleeping if you feel its safe too avoid to begin with the area he is oversensitive about until you feel he has built up a trust with you. Dont over do it though only a couple of minutes every now and then maybe once a day to begin with.

It may also be worth considering running a DAP at the moment and looking into a natural calmer speak to your vets aswell to see if they have an understanding on homeopathy or consider a bach flower remedy or consultancy.

Most importantly I think you should speak to and seek advice from a fully qualified behaviourist who knows lurchers as a breed and what makes them tick. What area are you in ?

[donaldforde]

Hello Lisa, Thanks very much for the advice.

Yes, it was Aludex and you are not wrong about impact, particularly since his skin is like gossamer. Of course, that the hope that it has totally cleared up, we did get a full bloodcheck but diagnosis was that there is a chance that it may come back. Diagnosis was however a bit vague so may well need to follow up as you have suggested.

we are only really comfortable stroking him when he approaches us and visa versa with him doing this on his own terms. He simply would not let any of us go anywhere near him when he is relaxed, sleeping or snoozing on his bed. Strange thing is that once in a while he does come over for a stroke, seems really content but then suddenly gets 'twitchy'. Does seem a bit sad because gut feeling is that he feels left out but then on the other hand does like things when they are quiet. Obviously we are not that sure what he is thinking or feeling...so aware that probably not helping that much.

Issues you raised about letting him do things in his own time and not overdo it with him make sense and we'll need to do more research about this and will need to get professional help. Funny thing is that saw programmes on tv but always a touch cynical about supposedly miraculous turn around.You mention help from a qualified behaviourist - we live in East Dulwich, London - Do you know of anyone in the south london/east/north kent area ?.

p.s what is DAP

All the best, Donald

[Lisa]

Luck just so happens that I know a VERY good behaviourist and very good experienced lurcher owner not a million miles away in Kensington so you live in a good area. Tell her that Lisa at Gap asked you to contact her.

Here are Tamaras details below please do give her a ring

Tamara Cartwright-Loebl:

My experience involves many years of walking/boarding dogs of all breeds, 5
years full time and 3 years combining this with dog behaviour remedial work, both in person
for clients and on the phone/email for EGLR and LL. I am a member of the
Companion Animal Behaviour Therapy Study Group and regularly attend
seminars with leading behaviourists, with a wide range of specialisation.

I work with all breeds, currently exclusively home visits or by phone/email.
my approach to dog behaviour issues is holistic and involves examining
how the dog relates to its environment, including family members and how
they relate to it. My remedies focus on greater understanding - between
dog and handler,dog and dog, dog and world; and involve as little
equipment as we can get away with (judged case by case). All my methods
are kind, dog-centred and involve encouragement and reward
rather than punishment.

Common problems include, pulling on the lead; barking at other dogs,
over the fence, at the door; food-related aggression; fighting; biting
(owner, family members, strangers, children); hogging the bed/sofa etc;
lack of recall; chasing wildlife/stock, but there are many more so if
it's bothering you, give me a call!

Contact Details -
Telephone: [phone]
email: [e-mail]
web site: Complete Canine Care

Also until Tamara can get out and see you remove the attention on demand factor out of the equation!!! Dogs shouldnt be allowed to demand fuss and cuddles off you especially dogs that arnt interacting in an appropriate manner, the higher ranking members of the pack demand attention off the lower ranking members but ask for solidarity when it suits. You are basically doing what I worried you were doing and placing too much responsibility on him that he isnt comfortable with and this is causing more stress and re inforcing his nerves.

Have a read of this aswell

k9deb.com/nilif.htm

It may not be a training concept that Tamara does suggest for you BUT in the interim it may help you understand what is happening.

A DAP can be purchased from your vets and it actually stands for Dog Appeasing Phenemones. Its basically a unit similar to a plug in air freshner that your dog can smell but us humans cant and emits a mock scent of a lactating bitch. This takes the dog back to memories of being with Mum and security and safety and can help them relax greatly. Speak with your vet about it they should be able to supply one you plug it in next to the dogs bed.

Good luck and please DO let us know how you get on.

[sibs]

Just want to echo Lisa's advice of not paying too much attention. Much as you want to scoop them up and reassure them. We have had Max for 2years...bag of nerves. It has really helped to not look at him, giving him a safe place to rest up where no one will bother him. he still backs off at times . I find being an old fat lady is a help as I move slowly. Do hope you get help from Tamara. I think it is so rewarding when you see frightened dogs gradually unfold and relax. Last w/e Max went on a home visit with me for GG and was a star. polite with the home dogs and calm with the peeps. Very good wishes to you and the boy.

[pecan]

Just a thought - since you say he is aggressive when snoozing etc. - have you heard of sleep agression? Some extremely peaceful dogs show this when their space is invaded when they're not fully awake (could be where the phrase "let sleeping dogs lie" comes from). The behaviourist willl be able to tell you about this, or just "google" it to get more info.
Good luck!

[donaldforde]

Thank you everyone - so much I didn't really know
Lisa, I have put in an order of Dap + collar for immediate future
and will contact Tamara shortly....also got a message from Jim Greenwood who you recommend elsewhere on Greyhound Gap
I guess the reassuring thing from reading up on the attached is that seems some broadly obvious reasons - particularly about giving him too much responsibility.

p.s big difference between East Dulwich and Kensington !

Will let you know how I get on, cheers all, D

[Lisa]

donaldforde said:

p.s big difference between East Dulwich and Kensington !

Will let you know how I get on, cheers all, D

Not on my map there isnt Thats why I suggested Tamara and not Jim as he is oop North and thought he may beat me about the head with his big pointy stick he saves especially for me and Kaye at LL

Wonder if this post will drag him kicking and screaming out of his hidey hole.

Ello Sir Greenwood

[Vicky]

I too have a very nervous Saluki X and can certainly vouch for the techniques Lisa is recommending. It does sound like your lad has taken the top dog role in the house which he is seriously struggling to cope with, hence the nervous aggressive behaviour. If you start enforcing some strict guidelines, you should start to see some improvements fairly quickly. However, prepare for it to get a bit worse before it gets better. It is very easy to reinforce nervous behaviour in a dog and can take quite a long time to resolve. With the help of an experienced behaviourist you should do well.
Good luck.